[ANSYS Meshing] Problem with specifying first element size in 2D Mesh

sigmundab · November 13, 2012, 07:04

Hi

I'm trying to model turbulent flow in an axis symetric pipe using fluent. This requires high control of the first node from the wall (y ~10^-4). For the time being I have accomplished this using sizing with bias on the edges (in Ansys Meshing). When using this approach, I do not feel I'm in control of the first node, regardless of choosing element size or numbers of divisions.

I would like to specify first node size and a growth factor, is there a way to do that?

I have included an example mesh below.

Regards
Sigmund

bansa9643 · November 13, 2012, 08:53

Hello Sigmund,

I have a similar problem.. I would like to control the first element size (i.e. boundary layer size) once bias has been used in Ansys Meshing for edge sizes. (in case of a structured mesh)

When face sizing is used, one can use a boundary layer(inflation) option where one can control the first element size. But in this case, the resulting mesh is unstructured!

Any suggestions where one can control the boundary layer element size while ensuring a structured mesh would be very helpful!

bansa9643

sigmundab · November 18, 2012, 12:40

Nice to see that there are more people out there with similar problems. Hopefully there is someone out there with the answer to our problem as well. The floor is open

diamondx · November 18, 2012, 13:52

i had never used ansys meshing to meshing a 2d case, i always use icem. the feature that can allow you to do so is by applying inflation. try this, select that edge, right button click, insert inflation. While setting up the parameter for inflation you can give it the size of the first element. i do this with surface in 3d, i guess it will work in 2d two.
I hope it can help

sigmundab · November 19, 2012, 05:17

Thanks for the response Ali.

The inflation function works fine, the problem is what happens beyond the inflated area. I want that area to be structured, but it ends up being unstructured.

What I thought would be the solution, was to combine inflation with size functions and/or mapped face meshing. With size functions it was still unstructured and the combination of inflation and "mapped face meshing" is invalid (at least with the default settings).

The only way I've been able to create a structured mesh is by using sizing functions with bias (in combo with mapped face surface), but then again I cannot get the accurate first element size close to the wall.

Should I try a different meshing program, or do anyone know how to solve this in Ansys Meshing?

Regards
Sigmund

diamondx · November 19, 2012, 09:36

as i never tried, it is hard to believe that it's impossible to do it with ansys meshing. What i can suggest you is ICEM CFD. very easy to use with 2d geometries and you have total control over your fist cell height ... we can help you with icem cfd more than ansys meshing. can you post some screenshot of your geometry ?

sigmundab · November 21, 2012, 09:57

Today I received an answer from Ansys support center. They could inform me that in Ansys meshing one can not use inflation and get a structured grid (in 2D). The only solution is to use sizing with bias and mapped face meshing, and a great amount of trial and error to get desired result.

Sigmund

diamondx · November 21, 2012, 10:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigmundab

Today I received an answer from Ansys support center. They could inform me that in Ansys meshing one can not use inflation and get a structured grid (in 2D). The only solution is to use sizing with bias and mapped face meshing, and a great amount of trial and error to get desired result.

Sigmund

thanks you for sharing this...

Crank-Shaft · November 25, 2012, 01:29

I have thought about this problem in the past as well however, did not investigate any further and simply found that the y+ values were suitable for my analysis by SOME trial and error.

After having learnt about the definitions themselves however, I believe you should be able to do some simple, manual calculations and implement this using the Element Size option. Based on limited knowledge, you could firstly specify the largest cell size you want in the wall-normal direction and then using the definition of bias factor as simply a length ratio between the largest and smallest cells to calculate the required value.

I guess this technique is not exactly accurate but should save you a lot of iterations compared to a complete trial and error approach.

enass massoud · April 14, 2016, 09:53

Can anyone help in how to subdivide the first grid next to a wall into a number of control volumes in ansys meshing?

November 18, 2012, 13:52		#4
diamondx Super Moderator Ghazlani M. Ali Join Date: May 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 1,385 Blog Entries: 23 Rep Power: 28	i had never used ansys meshing to meshing a 2d case, i always use icem. the feature that can allow you to do so is by applying inflation. try this, select that edge, right button click, insert inflation. While setting up the parameter for inflation you can give it the size of the first element. i do this with surface in 3d, i guess it will work in 2d two. I hope it can help __________________ Regards, New to ICEM CFD, try this document --> https://goo.gl/KAOIwm Ali

November 19, 2012, 09:36		#6
diamondx Super Moderator Ghazlani M. Ali Join Date: May 2011 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 1,385 Blog Entries: 23 Rep Power: 28	as i never tried, it is hard to believe that it's impossible to do it with ansys meshing. What i can suggest you is ICEM CFD. very easy to use with 2d geometries and you have total control over your fist cell height ... we can help you with icem cfd more than ansys meshing. can you post some screenshot of your geometry ? __________________ Regards, New to ICEM CFD, try this document --> https://goo.gl/KAOIwm Ali

November 21, 2012, 09:57	Not exectly a solution...	#7
sigmundab New Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 13	Today I received an answer from Ansys support center. They could inform me that in Ansys meshing one can not use inflation and get a structured grid (in 2D). The only solution is to use sizing with bias and mapped face meshing, and a great amount of trial and error to get desired result. Sigmund

November 25, 2012, 01:29		#9
Crank-Shaft Senior Member Ovi Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 166 Rep Power: 13	I have thought about this problem in the past as well however, did not investigate any further and simply found that the y+ values were suitable for my analysis by SOME trial and error. After having learnt about the definitions themselves however, I believe you should be able to do some simple, manual calculations and implement this using the Element Size option. Based on limited knowledge, you could firstly specify the largest cell size you want in the wall-normal direction and then using the definition of bias factor as simply a length ratio between the largest and smallest cells to calculate the required value. I guess this technique is not exactly accurate but should save you a lot of iterations compared to a complete trial and error approach. __________________ -- Mechanical Engineering Sydney, Australia

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November 13, 2012, 08:53		#2
bansa9643 New Member A Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: France Posts: 7 Rep Power: 13	Hello Sigmund, I have a similar problem.. I would like to control the first element size (i.e. boundary layer size) once bias has been used in Ansys Meshing for edge sizes. (in case of a structured mesh) When face sizing is used, one can use a boundary layer(inflation) option where one can control the first element size. But in this case, the resulting mesh is unstructured! Any suggestions where one can control the boundary layer element size while ensuring a structured mesh would be very helpful! bansa9643

November 18, 2012, 12:40		#3
sigmundab New Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 13	Nice to see that there are more people out there with similar problems. Hopefully there is someone out there with the answer to our problem as well. The floor is open

November 19, 2012, 05:17		#5
sigmundab New Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 4 Rep Power: 13	Thanks for the response Ali. The inflation function works fine, the problem is what happens beyond the inflated area. I want that area to be structured, but it ends up being unstructured. What I thought would be the solution, was to combine inflation with size functions and/or mapped face meshing. With size functions it was still unstructured and the combination of inflation and "mapped face meshing" is invalid (at least with the default settings). The only way I've been able to create a structured mesh is by using sizing functions with bias (in combo with mapped face surface), but then again I cannot get the accurate first element size close to the wall. Should I try a different meshing program, or do anyone know how to solve this in Ansys Meshing? Regards Sigmund

April 14, 2016, 09:53		#10
enass massoud Member enass Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Alexandria-Egypt Posts: 30 Rep Power: 11	Can anyone help in how to subdivide the first grid next to a wall into a number of control volumes in ansys meshing?