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[ICEM] faces are missorinted.. repair holes

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Old   June 25, 2013, 21:58
Default faces are missorinted.. repair holes
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mohamed khedr emam
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Dear experts,
I have a small problem , it took long time for solving and i couldn't solve it


When I run the mesh ( Tetra, unstructured and Robust (octree) meshing techniques) a massage appeared in monitored screen "faces are missorinted" and then ICEM show me "repair holes" massage box "image1"

Notes:
1-There is no holes in my geometry (it a single blade inside a big 120o enclosure sector) and i am also run "repair geometry" before
2-The zone where the problem originates is >> a common edges between two couple of surface "image2"
3- I searched in cfd-online search for " faces are missorinted" but I found only one thread and it was useless for me
Finally, I attached the Icem file
Thanks in advance
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1.jpg (62.5 KB, 21 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (88.1 KB, 15 views)
Attached Files
File Type: zip wt.zip (56.2 KB, 6 views)
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Old   June 27, 2013, 00:24
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Any help pls.
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Old   June 27, 2013, 07:51
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- set proper mesh sizes on all surfaces or parts, especially in the hub region
- delete all points and curves permanently
- run "Build Diagnostic Topology" with the default value it gives you
- set curve sizes (this is not a must)
- then run octree again

Edit:
When defining intersecting thin cuts, remember to have the curve between the two parts in another part.
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Old   June 27, 2013, 11:12
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The holes is right here:



can you fix it ??? just delete that green surface and create surface from curve...
Let me know if you can't
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Old   June 27, 2013, 11:14
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wait sorry that was not a hole. i did check the full geometry. let me investigate more
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Old   June 27, 2013, 11:26
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As Ali said it seems that that surface was a problem, but by inactive/active that surface, the problem is gone!
One of the edges is not associated well.
I chose build up topology of 0.001 and it was corrected.
I then run Octree mesh.
There was no problem. I use Ansys v14.5.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg p1.jpg (26.4 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg p3.jpg (31.3 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg p4.jpg (93.2 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg p5.jpg (86.8 KB, 11 views)

Last edited by sadjad.s; June 27, 2013 at 11:45. Reason: Correction
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Old   June 27, 2013, 11:42
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I think there is no actual hole in the geometry. The problem may occur from topology and inproper mesh sizes. Try my suggested method, it works. I have attached the corrected files. Now, just set more mesh sizes to capture every detail of your geometry.
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File Type: zip wt.zip (69.4 KB, 10 views)
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Old   June 27, 2013, 12:10
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in my case the problem came from the thin cut, i added inter1 to pressure-side and inter2 to suction-side and the problem is gone.
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Old   July 9, 2013, 06:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
- set proper mesh sizes on all surfaces or parts, especially in the hub region
- delete all points and curves permanently
- run "Build Diagnostic Topology" with the default value it gives you
- set curve sizes (this is not a must)
- then run octree again.
Thanks Kad for replay,

I tried this method But it didn't work also
Then i tried the 2nd method you stated it (below)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
I think there is no actual hole in the geometry. The problem may occur from topology and inproper mesh sizes. Try my suggested method, it works. I have attached the corrected files. Now, just set more mesh sizes to capture every detail of your geometry.
where all curves and point collected in Geom part. It work until specific mesh size the error appear again (o.k i accept this mesh size and no problem)

thanks again
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Old   July 9, 2013, 06:56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamondx View Post
in my case the problem came from the thin cut, i added inter1 to pressure-side and inter2 to suction-side and the problem is gone.
thanks diamondx for replay But i need to seperate sides parts from inter parts for the sake of FLEUNT Data presentaion ( i need to represnt pressure variation on pressure-side and suction-side alone)

i tried many times to separate them in fluent but i failed (On the contrary, merge is an easy process in fluent)

thanks again
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Old   July 9, 2013, 09:45
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Wait, I think i found a hole in the geometry. There is a short gap between pressure and suction side of the blade. Octree does not mind the gap as long as elements are big enough.
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File Type: jpg blade_hub1.jpg (10.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg blade_hub2.jpg (14.0 KB, 6 views)
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Old   July 9, 2013, 10:05
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
Wait, I think i found a hole in the geometry. There is a short gap between pressure and suction side of the blade. Octree does not mind the gap as long as elements are big enough.
how can i fix it?
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Old   July 9, 2013, 10:23
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In ICEM it is very hard to fix. First you could go back to your CAD tool and try to fix it. Or try another exchange format.

You can also reverse the normal process. You can extract geometry from an existing mesh. I gave it a short try and it worked. Not all areas are good. So you could develope a mesh with your old geometry that,

- closes the gap
- represent other geometry well

and then extract new geometry from this mesh.
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Old   July 9, 2013, 10:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kad View Post
In ICEM it is very hard to fix. First you could go back to your CAD tool and try to fix it. Or try another exchange format.
this is easy for me , i'm using solidworks then i export the file as IGES , ACIS , Parasolid or STEP format (i used ACIS among of them) , then i send the file to AnsysGeometry to get rid of solid part in blade and hub.

Anyawy I will try other exchange format, thanks Kad
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Old   July 9, 2013, 11:09
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I think it is possible to export solidworks geometry directly from solidworks to Designmodeler and from there to ICEM via workbenchreader. Maybe you have to adjust your CAD configuration manager. Check this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yyPC9gXZZ8

Or you can only use the workbenchreader in ICEM for solidworks data. This should be somehow more "lossless" because you avoid converting back and forth.
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Old   July 29, 2013, 00:11
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Hi, All

I forced to change the mesh size specially on blade surface (for accurate mesh presentaion on Fluent and hence accurate results) , So Massage appears again "repair holes" if i press YES a internal screen massage of "faces are missorinted"

However i upload the new ICEM file (http://www.4shared.com/rar/0WbPTjkJ/Gometry.html) , I ask for a definitive solution for this problem

Thanks in advance
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Old   July 29, 2013, 11:10
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I forgot to say that i'm tired all the above ways to avoid the problem BUT the error still continue
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