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-   -   Liquid Volume Error when VOF + Deforming Mesh Used (http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/cfx/102881-liquid-volume-error-when-vof-deforming-mesh-used.html)

NCle June 5, 2012 10:14

Liquid Volume Error when VOF + Deforming Mesh Used
 
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I am writing to post a type of error I found with VOF and deforming moving mesh used in conjunction. What happens is that the mesh elements change volume with the moving mesh, but the VOF vol frac in each element stays the same, as if the mesh wasn't moving and the volume not decreasing overall. The result is that the liquid inside each cell gets "compressed" with the cell/element artificially, implying that the total mass of liquid in the domain is decreasing when it should stay completely constant.

Has anyone come across this error also in your work? I am now trying to find a way around it. possibly CFX doesn't have one:( and only FLUENT does? I'll post a video and picture also to clarify my explanation. Can't post a video though:D

I'm posting just to say that if anyone has strange fluid loss errors when using moving mesh that this could be the cause.

ghorrocks June 5, 2012 19:43

Which version of CFX are you using?

Before anything else you should check whether you simply need tighter convergence or smaller time steps. Check whether you still get the effect with far tighter convergence and/or tighter convergence.

Then test some other options, such as coupled versus segregated VF. The first implementation of the coupled VF solver had some conservation issues but I think it was resolved in later releases of CFX.

NCle June 6, 2012 07:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks (Post 364919)
Which version of CFX are you using?

Before anything else you should check whether you simply need tighter convergence or smaller time steps. Check whether you still get the effect with far tighter convergence and/or tighter convergence.

Then test some other options, such as coupled versus segregated VF. The first implementation of the coupled VF solver had some conservation issues but I think it was resolved in later releases of CFX.


I'm using the CFX 12.1 version that comes with ANSYS 12.1.

Do you know by any chance if the convergence can be tightened by reducing the "residual target" value under "convergence criteria" in the solver controls?:confused: (I'll just try that to test for result). I already tested the effect of smaller timestep. The effect was negligible on this error:(. Also, I coincidentally already experimented with the coupled/segregated VOF multiphase settings to no avail. I'll try that convergence criteria tightening now.

ghorrocks June 6, 2012 08:01

You should consider upgrading to the current version. I think they made some big improvements to the coupled VF solver in V13. I remember V12 had problems with VF conservation - which is exactly what you are seeing.

Quote:

Do you know by any chance if the convergence can be tightened by reducing the "residual target" value under "convergence criteria" in the solver controls?
Of course. Let me guess, you are new to CFD.....

And forget about reporting it as a bug if you are on V12. No point fixing a bug on an old version which is probably already fixed anyway. (Get my drift? Using old versions of the software means you may well be wasting your time on a problem which is already fixed.)

NCle June 6, 2012 11:52

Gaining experience by the minute. Thanks, I'll try 13

ghorrocks June 6, 2012 18:56

Why not try V14?

NCle June 7, 2012 10:01

Ok, got another amateur question: If I run a model in CFX solver 13 that I setup in CFX-pre 12.1, shouldn't that solution have the newer VF coupling corrrectness? I'm pretty sure it should, but I just did that (ran a 12.1 setup in 13 solver) and it had the same exact mass conservation issue, no improvement.

I ran it again with a much tighter conservation target and the same exact solution was produced. Even if I could get access to v14, not sure if it would be any better. Going to try Fluent v13 now.

ghorrocks June 7, 2012 18:53

It is starting to look like you have found a bug in VF conservation in moving meshes. But forget about doing anything about it unless you run in the current version, V14. If it also happens in V14 then I would report it as a bug and hopefully you can get it fixed.

NCle June 8, 2012 13:07

Ok, got it. The ANSYS technical support said that the surface tension model causes problems at this small a scale (sub-micron). When I turned it off, there was less, but still some, mass loss.


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