modeling of plasma actuator on axial compressor blade

hesam1990 · July 29, 2016, 08:36

hi
i want to modeling plasma actuator in axial compressor blade with CFX, but i no have any idea to do it
i choose rotor 37 naca for base geometry but don't know how apply plasma effect on it
please help me

ghorrocks · July 30, 2016, 06:50

CFX has no plasma model. You can model some aspect of plasma physics such as the flow and some electrical/magnetic field stuff, but the details of the interactions of the charged particles with the flow or fields cannot be modelled in CFX (well, at least not easily).

Are you sure CFX is an appropriate modelling tool for this application?

hesam1990 · July 31, 2016, 11:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

CFX has no plasma model. You can model some aspect of plasma physics such as the flow and some electrical/magnetic field stuff, but the details of the interactions of the charged particles with the flow or fields cannot be modelled in CFX (well, at least not easily).

Are you sure CFX is an appropriate modelling tool for this application?

i know that CFX has no plasma model and i want to coding plasma for it (CEL),
it's my thesis

ghorrocks · July 31, 2016, 20:04

As modelling plasma would be a major new feature for CFX - if it was easy to implement (such as by using some CEL expressions), do you think it would already be implemented and advertised as a feature?

But it depends on what features of plasma physics you are trying to include. What plasma physics are you trying to model?

hesam1990 · August 1, 2016, 11:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

As modelling plasma would be a major new feature for CFX - if it was easy to implement (such as by using some CEL expressions), do you think it would already be implemented and advertised as a feature?

But it depends on what features of plasma physics you are trying to include. What plasma physics are you trying to model?

i want observe reattach of separation boundary layer and effect of plasma on it

ghorrocks · August 1, 2016, 20:40

How does the plasma affect the reattachment?

hesam1990 · August 2, 2016, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

How does the plasma affect the reattachment?

it done this work with injection of momentum in boundary layer

ghorrocks · August 2, 2016, 20:31

How does it inject momentum in the boundary layer? Where does the energy for it come from?

hesam1990 · August 3, 2016, 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

How does it inject momentum in the boundary layer? Where does the energy for it come from?

Plasma actuators are electrical devices that generate a wall bounded jet without the use of any moving parts. For aerodynamic applications they can be used as flow control devices to delay separation and augment lift on a wing. The standard plasma actuator consists of a single encapsulated (ground) electrode.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...1f3324aedf9e23

ghorrocks · August 3, 2016, 03:15

Wow, that's a neat idea.

You *might* be able to model this replacing the plasma with a mass source or a momentum source, assuming the plasma acts in a similar way. That is straight forward as it means you do not need to model any plasma physics. But you do need to tune the source to recreate the effect of the plasma.

hesam1990 · January 28, 2017, 12:07

thanks
i model the plasma effect in Fortran and now want to insert the plasma solution in Cfx, do any body have any idea?

ghorrocks · January 28, 2017, 16:01

What plasma effect are you intending to insert into cfx?

hesam1990 · January 29, 2017, 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks

What plasma effect are you intending to insert into cfx?

dear ghorrocks
i earn the force and velocity that plasma can affect on the flow with modeling that in fortran and know want to insert this force or velocity in CFX

ghorrocks · January 29, 2017, 16:14

You can put the force in (presumably as a force per unit volume) with a momentum source term.

I am a bit puzzled about the velocity comment. If your plasma model gives velocity then why do you need CFD?

July 29, 2016, 08:36	modeling of plasma actuator on axial compressor blade	#1
hesam1990 New Member mojtaba Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 9	hi i want to modeling plasma actuator in axial compressor blade with CFX, but i no have any idea to do it i choose rotor 37 naca for base geometry but don't know how apply plasma effect on it please help me

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July 30, 2016, 06:50		#2
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	CFX has no plasma model. You can model some aspect of plasma physics such as the flow and some electrical/magnetic field stuff, but the details of the interactions of the charged particles with the flow or fields cannot be modelled in CFX (well, at least not easily). Are you sure CFX is an appropriate modelling tool for this application?

July 31, 2016, 20:04		#4
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	As modelling plasma would be a major new feature for CFX - if it was easy to implement (such as by using some CEL expressions), do you think it would already be implemented and advertised as a feature? But it depends on what features of plasma physics you are trying to include. What plasma physics are you trying to model?

August 1, 2016, 20:40		#6
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	How does the plasma affect the reattachment?

August 2, 2016, 20:31		#8
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	How does it inject momentum in the boundary layer? Where does the energy for it come from?

August 3, 2016, 03:15		#10
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	Wow, that's a neat idea. You might be able to model this replacing the plasma with a mass source or a momentum source, assuming the plasma acts in a similar way. That is straight forward as it means you do not need to model any plasma physics. But you do need to tune the source to recreate the effect of the plasma.

January 28, 2017, 12:07		#11
hesam1990 New Member mojtaba Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 10 Rep Power: 9	thanks i model the plasma effect in Fortran and now want to insert the plasma solution in Cfx, do any body have any idea?

January 28, 2017, 16:01		#12
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	What plasma effect are you intending to insert into cfx?

January 29, 2017, 16:14		#14
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	You can put the force in (presumably as a force per unit volume) with a momentum source term. I am a bit puzzled about the velocity comment. If your plasma model gives velocity then why do you need CFD?