CFD Online URL
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > CFX

Boundary Conditions Free Surface

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old   January 4, 2010, 18:47
Default Boundary Conditions Free Surface
  #1
New Member
 
Cristina
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 6
friducha is on a distinguished road
Hello,
I am trying to simulate a 3d free surface flow around a sphere.
I am doing the same boundary conditions that the bump2d tutorial has but the free surface of the result is not getting what it should, with regular waves like a ship.
In the tutorial does not mention the type of boundary condition in the top so this is my question.

Thanks

Pedro Lopes
friducha is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 5, 2010, 06:12
Default
  #2
Senior Member
 
Roland Rakos
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
Rep Power: 7
Roland R is on a distinguished road
Hi,

if you have applied the same boundary conditions as in the tutorial, than look after the hydrostatic pressure distribution at OUTLET and INLET (UpH and DownH)!! I have studied the free surface flows CFD simulation and I have experienced that tha developed fluid surface is very sensitive to the UpH and DownH.
By the way a complicated free surface flow (e.g. around a ship, sphere, cube etc.) generally contains a lot of transient phenomenons (e.g. hydraulic jump) which can be calculated by transient simulation...These transient phenomenons can not develop with steady state simulation, your calculations will not converge...

Regards
Roland
Roland R is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 5, 2010, 10:01
Default
  #3
New Member
 
Cristina
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 6
friducha is on a distinguished road
Hello Roland,
Thanks for the answer.
In the top region of the domain i do not know the boundary condition of the bump2d tutorial so that i can match my top surface. I am trying several options.
Can you tell me what is the best boundary condition? Its because I established the height of the free surface at the inlet and at the outlet and the flow at the inlet and at the outlet has that height but in the midle of the domain it has a huge hole and the free surface height does not reach the sphere. I think it has something to do with the boundary conditions of the top and the outlet of the domain.

Thanks
friducha is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 5, 2010, 12:04
Default free surface flow
  #4
fab
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 7
fab is on a distinguished road
hi,happy new year every body!
so im simulating a free surface flow over a polymerfilm.
i have to considere steady state and transient.
my first question is:how to get the temperature of the cell on the surface,because is it not the same on the bottom?
second :by transient flow i get after starting run a fatal error:
Variable : water.Temperature
Domain : Default Domain
thank u very much
fab is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 6, 2010, 10:03
Default
  #5
Senior Member
 
Roland Rakos
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
Rep Power: 7
Roland R is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by friducha View Post
Hello Roland,
Thanks for the answer.
In the top region of the domain i do not know the boundary condition of the bump2d tutorial so that i can match my top surface. I am trying several options.
Can you tell me what is the best boundary condition? Its because I established the height of the free surface at the inlet and at the outlet and the flow at the inlet and at the outlet has that height but in the midle of the domain it has a huge hole and the free surface height does not reach the sphere. I think it has something to do with the boundary conditions of the top and the outlet of the domain.

Thanks
Hello Christina!

Yes, I remember...I had this "huge hole" in my simulation too. In my case the flow domain had a simple ship body...and in the simulation the water don"t reach the body....so the ship has floated in the air

This was a long time ago ,I cannot say exactly what was the right solution, but I try to give some suggstions....

1. First, I can suggest the "wall" boundary condition with "free slip" option to the top surface. In the tutorial this surface is "opening" where the air volume fraction is 1, but I always define "free slip wall" to the top surface, in case of free surface flow...

2. Than check the surface tension value! In your simulation is this 0.072 N/m?

3. Can you say the height of the water at INLET and OUTLET? (UpH/DownH).

4. How many the Water/Air Volume Fraction in the Global Initialization?
(In case of free surface flow the results can contain large numerical errors if the initialization is incorrect)

Regards
Roland
Roland R is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 6, 2010, 11:53
Default
  #6
Senior Member
 
Roland Rakos
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
Rep Power: 7
Roland R is on a distinguished road
By the way, I think that the main problem is the OUTLET in your case. It is possible, that you have defined a water height which can not develop in the real....or it can develop but you can represent it only with transient simulation....(I have mentioned already; the free surface flows generally contain a lot of transient phenomenons (e.g. waves on the surface, vorticies, hydraulic jumps etc.))

Have you defined the water height at INLET/OUTLET based on measuring? It is very significant what can occur in the real with your boundaries....a transient or a steady state flow phenomenon?

Roland
Roland R is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 7, 2010, 20:14
Default
  #7
New Member
 
Cristina
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 6
friducha is on a distinguished road
Hello Roland,
I tried the top surface as wall free slip but it went overflow.
About the surface tension, where can i see it? In the help menu it only explains what is it, nothing more.
The height of the UpH and DownH is 5 meters to both. I have the sphere with 5 meter deep water and with 5 meter with air above it.
What do you mean with "How many the Water/Air volume fraction in the Global initialization"? I have the global initialisation equaling the inlet, is it ok?
I can change the simulation to transient instead of steady state by altering the timesteps correct?
Thanks
Pedro
friducha is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 12, 2010, 08:13
Default
  #8
Senior Member
 
Roland Rakos
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 115
Rep Power: 7
Roland R is on a distinguished road
Hello Pedro

Your Global Initialization is right...

The "overflow" can be because of many things but it's possible that your meshquality is not correct. The mesh has to be very fine near the sphere and the fluid surface! If the solver can not calculate the large gradient (density gradient, pressure gardient etc.) than you will get "overflow" (generally).

Could you send a pictures about your mesh?

Roland
Roland R is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 31, 2010, 17:52
Default
  #9
New Member
 
Cristina
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 6
friducha is on a distinguished road
Hello Rolland,

I now have some pictures that i leave here as attachment.
What do you think of the mesh?

I am experiencing a regular pattern in the solver of the 7 lines RMS. This is due to the fact that the flow is transient? Should I stop in some particular time?

I re-mesh the domain and got a mesh of 93 megas which was quite a lot for my computer so I changed the memory allocation factor. This does not change the results right?

Thanks
Attached Images
File Type: jpg mesh center of sphere.jpg (99.6 KB, 69 views)
File Type: jpg Mesh free surface sphere.jpg (93.5 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg Mesh free surface view from top.jpg (95.1 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg Mesh Side Wall.jpg (86.2 KB, 60 views)
friducha is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   February 19, 2013, 06:55
Default Ship On Free Surface
  #10
New Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 3
sony anggara is on a distinguished road
I am Sony, from Indonesia

now i am doing my master thesis project by using CFD ansys 13 version. i intend to generate free surface simulation to predict ship resistance. the boundary condition in tutorial in term "free surface over bump" does not show good result. the simulation is always not finish. any body can help for explaining boundary condition used in free surface ship simulation in CFX? and may be also showing physical model that can be adopt?

Thank you

Regard
Sony
sony anggara is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   February 19, 2013, 18:03
Default
  #11
Super Moderator
 
Glenn Horrocks
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 9,860
Rep Power: 78
ghorrocks has a spectacular aura aboutghorrocks has a spectacular aura aboutghorrocks has a spectacular aura about
First of all, do not spam the forum with the same post in multiple places - including private messaging me in the spam. It is very annoying. I have deleted the duplicate posts and deleted the PM. Just post your question once, that is all which is required.

And your question is an FAQ anyway: http://www.cfd-online.com/Wiki/Ansys...gence_criteria
ghorrocks is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wind turbine simulation Saturn CFX 34 October 16, 2014 06:27
RPM in Wind Turbine Pankaj CFX 9 November 23, 2009 05:05
free stream temperature (boundary conditions) Leentje FLUENT 2 October 11, 2006 09:48
Free Surface Boundary Murat Cakan FLUENT 3 November 30, 2001 00:01
CFX4.3 -build analysis form Chie Min CFX 5 July 13, 2001 00:19


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 16:11.