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static vs. total pressure

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Old   March 22, 2006, 17:17
Default static vs. total pressure
  #1
auf dem feld
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I've some questionable results delivered by fluent. I plotted the contours of static pressure on a wall. Then I looked at the total pressure on the same wall expecting the exactly same results since all the velocities are zero at the wall (no slip)and therefore dynamic pressure should be zero BUT there is a non negligible difference between static and total pressure. what's wrong here?
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Old   March 22, 2006, 19:27
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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Ahmed
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What Fluent and CFD codes call Static pressure is actually a vulgar way to refer to the Thermodynamic pressure calculated from the Navier Stokes equations. As you understand it, Static pressure, has nothing to do with fluid dynamics. You have to dive into their manuals and make some corrections, perhaps you can add your voice to mine and ask CFD vendors to use correct scientific terminology not just the industry chat.
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Old   March 23, 2006, 02:28
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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mAx
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total pressure = operating pressure + static pressure + dynamic pressure so in your case, on your walls, the total pressure should be = operating pressure + static pressure
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Old   March 23, 2006, 02:37
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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Philipp
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Hi,

without knowing anything about your geometry and in particular about your 'wall', I tend to say that you could, should (?, that really depends on the flow field) see a difference between static and total pressure. I guess that you noticed that Fluent defines the 'total pressure' as the sum of 'static pressure' and 'dynamic pressure'. You pointed out that the velocity is '0' at the wall (no slip condition + nothing can go 'through' the wall): well, I would say that this is "irrelevant" for the dynamic pressure. Much more important is the velocity component normal and 'slightly' away from the wall--if you picture this, the wall defines a 'stagnation point' (since nothing can get 'through' the wall)... take the "Pitot-Tube" as an example. Hope this helps a bit"
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Old   March 23, 2006, 02:41
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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Philipp
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...and I have to "row" immediately back! Indeed, the pressure at the wall can only be the static pressure (plus eventually the operating pressure). ...what was I thinking....?
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Old   March 23, 2006, 02:50
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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Philipp
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Hello mAx,

In my understanding, Fluent defines the 'total pressure' as a 'gauge pressure' with respect to the 'operating pressure'. Hence, 'total pressure' = 'static pressure' + 'dynamic pressure'. Same for the 'static pressure', which is a 'gauge pressure'. Only the 'absolute pressure' takes also the 'operating pressure' into account (e.g. 6.2. manuals, chapter 7.3.1).
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Old   March 23, 2006, 02:58
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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mAx
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hi Philip, yes you're right total pressure = static + dynamic pressure absolute pressure = static + operating pressure but as I set always operating pressure at 0.....
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Old   March 23, 2006, 03:09
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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Philipp Beierer
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...(with operating pressure = 0) you get: absolute pressure = static pressure and total pressure = static pressure + dynamic pressure. Anyway, at the wall of 'auf dem feld' (btw, interesting name ;-)) should be: static pressure = total pressure as the velocity is 0... and we're right back where we started!

Cheers
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Old   March 23, 2006, 03:27
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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mAx
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I'm totally (or absolutely ;OP ) agree with you Philipp
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Old   March 23, 2006, 03:44
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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zhoulin
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your total pressure = static pressure (which is static gauge pressure) + operating pressure.

please check

Zhoulin
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Old   March 23, 2006, 09:45
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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auf dem feld
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as an update, I use operating pressure = 0 (for reasons that are defenetely discussed in other threads)

could anybody check one of his cases and plot static and total pressure on an arbitrary wall (vane, strut, pipe... whatever)?

thanks
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Old   March 23, 2006, 11:14
Default Re: static vs. total pressure
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Temel
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Hi. I also have a problem with total pressure. With any simple geometry such as nozzle, when I solved the problem I saw that in the exit plane total pressure is greater than inlet plane total pressure. there is no device to generate anything. Is that possible to be ? exit total pressure is greater than inlet total pressure? Boundary conditions inlet mass flow 69 kg/sn, flow direction normal to boundary , total temperature 300 K, outlet pressure 0 (gage) , operating conditions 101325 pa. Flow compressible, material is air , density is ideal gas. Help me???????
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Old   June 17, 2011, 09:36
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  #13
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I imagine it's to do the calculation with Hybrid and conservative values for the static and total pressure, although I can't be sure
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Old   March 20, 2014, 11:37
Talking Simplification
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Felipe L.
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All,

FLUENT regards pressure as such:

We are used to relating static pressure and gage static pressure back to atmospheric conditions. FLUENT allows us to change that mindset and relate gage static pressure to ANY user selected quantity. This selected quantity is the operating pressure.

In other words, your gage is referenced from FLUENT's operating pressure setting. Similar to the figure attached here; however, instead of P_atm think Operating Pressure or P_op.



FLUENT's Terminology on left side of equal sign not to be confused with scientifically accurate terminology!

static pressure = Static Pressure [abs zero ref] - Operating Pressure
Absolute Pressure = Static Pressure [abs zero ref]
dynamic pressure = dynamic pressure (no change)
total pressure = static pressure + dynamic pressure

Note: total pressure in FLUENT is based on a difference of the operating pressure. Any time FLUENT says static pressure, they are referring to gage static pressure. If you set OP = 0 then, obviously you are now at abs zero reference!

If we want true total/stagnation pressure then we need to reference from absolute zero or vacuum conditions. Lets call this absolute total pressure (thanks to FLUENT's terrible terminology selection)

absolute total pressure = OP + static Pressure + dynamic pressure
OR
absolute total pressure = absolute pressure + dynamic pressure
OR
absolute total pressure = OP + total pressure

This formula IS NOT an option in FLUENT.
You must select FLUENT's total pressure and then add OP yourself as a custom defined function. Why hasn't FLUENT done this already. No clue. Obviously, if OP is set to zero, then this is not needed and total pressure is the same as our hydrodynamics books!

FLUENT should name their variables as such:
static pressure --> static gage(OP) pressure
dynamic pressure --> dynamic pressure (YAY they got one)
absolute pressure --> absolute static pressure (technically abs pressure is fine)
total pressure --> total gage(OP) pressure
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Old   February 3, 2015, 06:08
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Gilberto Santo
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If the node values are enabled, then you are considering also the velue of the total pressure in the neighbour cells, thus also the cells which are not set as "wall". If you switch off the node values, you'll get indeed that the static pressure is equal to the total one.
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