CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > FLUENT

Question:Considerations about the evaporation in VOF

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old   January 20, 2011, 04:31
Default Question:Considerations about the evaporation in VOF
  #1
Member
 
Dokeun, Hwang
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 7
dokeun is on a distinguished road
Hello, dear experts!~
Now I'm trying to simulate evapration of water on which very hot air flows(T eq 4000K, M eq 3~4).
I found some questions from those who applied UDF for evaporation.
They were using some macros such as "DEFINE_SOURCE" or "DEFINE_MASS_TRANSFER".
I'm not so sure but "evaporation and condensation" mechanism for mass trasfer is provided by fluent for VOF model.

Q1
Is there any special reason that I have to use UDF to calculate the mass transfer -evaporation in my case- for my simulation? As I think, for the case of evaporation, that model(Phases>Interaction>mass) is provided from fluent for VOF and it doesn't require to use UDF for that.

Q2
As evaporation accures, heat energy absorbed from any phase should be considered due to latent heat. But, according to the fluent manual, VOF model doesn't offer energy exchange between phases. Is it reasonable to apply energy transfer by using UDF? And how? Just one thread had something to do with my question but it was not understandable...

Q3
From some references, surface tension and heat of vaporization(latent enthalpy) are function of temperature. They have critical temperatures in which those properties go to zero. These would affect the shape of liquid water surface and energy transfer between the phases. Can they be ignored? If not, how can i realize those phenomenon in fluent?

Q4
Before I try to use VOF model. I applied DPM model for water evaportation and get meaningful result in its own way. But it took too much time for the calculation. I wonder how shorter time will be taken for the same problem with Euler-Euler method like VOF in comparingn with DPM.

I'll wait for your help with hope
Any comment would be a great help to me
dokeun is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 20, 2011, 06:25
Default
  #2
New Member
 
k.baker's Avatar
 
Khalid Baker
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 19
Rep Power: 8
k.baker is on a distinguished road
1) If you see there are two option available on the menu of define>phases>interaction>mass which they user defined and population balance if you not want to use udf u can select the second one.

2) I think you can apply energy transfer by using UDF. In my simulation i turn energy equation on with vof from define>model>energy it work with vof.

3) Yes you can ignore it by setting there values as zeros in define>material

4) I am not familiar with DPM & Euler-Euler Models so I am not sure about your last question.

k.baker
k.baker is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 20, 2011, 15:05
Default
  #3
New Member
 
Mehdi Famouri
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 6
mehdi8619 is on a distinguished road
Hi every body,

I'm using VOF to model two-Phase flow in a heat pipe. Here is my questions:

FLUENT\Phases\Interactions\Mass

1- Am I supposed to define more than one mechanisms? one for <from phase 1 to 2> and another one <from phase 2 to 1>

2- About <evaporation-condensation> mechanism which has a Edit option to define a criterion based on both Temperature and Pressure. Anyway, my question is that, after clicking Edit button, it'd ask you about Evaporation and Condensation Frequency. What's that?

FYI:


Thanks in Advance,
mehdi8619 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 20, 2011, 21:49
Default Thank you!
  #4
Member
 
Dokeun, Hwang
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 7
dokeun is on a distinguished road
Dear k.baker

I really appreciate your answers! they are very helpful for me.

And I realized that "evaporation-condensation" is not available to VOF from ur answer and user's guide.

Thanks again~!

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.baker View Post
1) If you see there are two option available on the menu of define>phases>interaction>mass which they user defined and population balance if you not want to use udf u can select the second one.

2) I think you can apply energy transfer by using UDF. In my simulation i turn energy equation on with vof from define>model>energy it work with vof.

3) Yes you can ignore it by setting there values as zeros in define>material

4) I am not familiar with DPM & Euler-Euler Models so I am not sure about your last question.

k.baker
dokeun is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 20, 2011, 22:08
Default mass transfer in VOF
  #5
Member
 
Dokeun, Hwang
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 7
dokeun is on a distinguished road
Hello, mehdi8619!

I'm not sure perfectly but i hope you it would be some help for you

A1. From some mass transfer relative UDF questions i had found in this forum, they used +,- sign to define the direction of mass transfer in their UDF according to the Temp condition only.

There woud be some expansion of consideration(actually it's question). Evaporation

가. can be occure under the boiling point and

나. pressure, velocity of gas can affect that phenomen too.

I just guess for those issues that if temperature is high enough and pressure is moderate(actually i have no idea about the pressure) then those can be ignored


A2. According to my thanks message for k.baker. "evaporation-condensation" mechanism should not be applied to VOF. You can fine that from user's guide 26.2.8. So you have to use UDF or other mechanism so called "population balance".

I hope it would be a tips for you

Quote:
Originally Posted by mehdi8619 View Post
Hi every body,
1- Am I supposed to define more than one mechanisms? one for <from phase 1 to 2> and another one <from phase 2 to 1>

2- About <evaporation-condensation> mechanism which has a Edit option to define a criterion based on both Temperature and Pressure. Anyway, my question is that, after clicking Edit button, it'd ask you about Evaporation and Condensation Frequency. What's that?
dokeun is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 21, 2011, 00:57
Default
  #6
New Member
 
Mehdi Famouri
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 6
mehdi8619 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dokeun View Post
Hello, mehdi8619!

I'm not sure perfectly but i hope you it would be some help for you

A1. From some mass transfer relative UDF questions i had found in this forum, they used +,- sign to define the direction of mass transfer in their UDF according to the Temp condition only.

There woud be some expansion of consideration(actually it's question). Evaporation

가. can be occure under the boiling point and

나. pressure, velocity of gas can affect that phenomen too.

I just guess for those issues that if temperature is high enough and pressure is moderate(actually i have no idea about the pressure) then those can be ignored


A2. According to my thanks message for k.baker. "evaporation-condensation" mechanism should not be applied to VOF. You can fine that from user's guide 26.2.8. So you have to use UDF or other mechanism so called "population balance".

I hope it would be a tips for you
Thanks for your help.

A1- Based on the phase change diagram for the material we use, we can defined the pressure and temperature at which phase-change would happen (the Mechanism I draw a picture for you, has this options)

A2-But I couldn't find this part (26.2.8) in my User Guide. I'm using <Revision: 12.0.16 for the ANSYS Release Version 12.0.1> and there is no such thing you are talking about. Please make yourself clear a bit more, which user guide are you talking about?

Thanks in Advance,
mehdi8619 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 21, 2011, 01:42
Default
  #7
Member
 
Dokeun, Hwang
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 7
dokeun is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mehdi8619 View Post
Thanks for your help.

A1- Based on the phase change diagram for the material we use, we can defined the pressure and temperature at which phase-change would happen (the Mechanism I draw a picture for you, has this options)

A2-But I couldn't find this part (26.2.8) in my User Guide. I'm using <Revision: 12.0.16 for the ANSYS Release Version 12.0.1> and there is no such thing you are talking about. Please make yourself clear a bit more, which user guide are you talking about?

Thanks in Advance,
A1. Oh really?! I couldn't find that option on your picture but i'll find anyway later. thanks~

A2. Then you can find like this
Modeling Multiphase Flows>Steps for Using a Multiphase Model>Including Mass Transfer Effects>some explanations for the mass transfer mechanims
Or you can find same explanation in theory guide 16.7.5 Evaporation-Condensation Model
These are saying "evaporation-condensation" model is for mixture and eulerian multiphase models.
dokeun is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 21, 2011, 12:04
Default
  #8
New Member
 
Mehdi Famouri
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 6
mehdi8619 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dokeun View Post
A1. Oh really?! I couldn't find that option on your picture but i'll find anyway later. thanks~

A2. Then you can find like this
Modeling Multiphase Flows>Steps for Using a Multiphase Model>Including Mass Transfer Effects>some explanations for the mass transfer mechanims
Or you can find same explanation in theory guide 16.7.5 Evaporation-Condensation Model
These are saying "evaporation-condensation" model is for mixture and eulerian multiphase models.
Thanks for your attention and reply,

A1- In my picture, at the last Box, if you change the Saturation Temperature from Constant to the Polynomial, then the Edit button would appear through which you can defined any polynomial equation (T vs P) to address the phase change diagram

A2- I didn't get. If you mean I should Google that way, I did and I ended up with nothing. If you search this way and you find sth, let me know.

Yours,
mehdi8619 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 25, 2011, 20:50
Default
  #9
Member
 
Dokeun, Hwang
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 7
dokeun is on a distinguished road
Dear mehdi8619

A1. Thank you

A2.

Although we can choose evaporation-condensation mechanism when using VOF, from the user's guide (find the red box below), there was no mention about VOF but mixture, euler.

I think you've already read this. Do you have any other idea about this?

dokeun is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 25, 2011, 22:52
Default
  #10
New Member
 
Mehdi Famouri
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 12
Rep Power: 6
mehdi8619 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by dokeun View Post
Dear mehdi8619

A1. Thank you

A2.

Although we can choose evaporation-condensation mechanism when using VOF, from the user's guide (find the red box below), there was no mention about VOF but mixture, euler.

I think you've already read this. Do you have any other idea about this?
Thanks for your reply. Actually, I didn't have the manual to read. I'd really apprecite it if you could send me this Manual (famoor62@yahoo.com).

Back to the discussion, I should say that using VOF and Evaporation-Condensation is wrong as it's stated that this mechanism is not available for VOF.

Best Regards,
mehdi8619 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   February 24, 2011, 21:47
Default VOF with evap&cond mechanism and UDF for energy source term
  #11
Member
 
Dokeun, Hwang
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 71
Rep Power: 7
dokeun is on a distinguished road
Usually Fluent hides undesirable options with some messages from dialogue box when we choose a certain option.
In this point of view, the fact that I can choose evaporation & condensation mechanism with the VOF multiphase model may imply that I can use this mechanism for my case.

So now I'm attempting to calculate with this option but I'm not sure this mechanism include energy source term for the latent effect within the domain. If I have to calculate the term with UDF, what can I begin with?

Do anyone tell me about my curiosity?

Thanks in advance.
dokeun is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
about VOF and evaporation mengyue1 FLUENT 5 April 7, 2015 19:08
VOF simulate interface motion during evaporation ellen peng FLUENT 0 March 16, 2009 09:56
evaporation multiphase model ( vof? mixture ? ) emanuele FLUENT 0 March 2, 2007 12:44
evaporation in vof asghari FLUENT 3 May 27, 2006 02:58
evaporation and condensation in the VOF model Glev FLUENT 0 December 24, 2004 05:55


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:39.