# larger time step brings convergence instead of smaller time step

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 September 16, 2011, 12:46 larger time step brings convergence instead of smaller time step #1 Senior Member   raymond Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 149 Rep Power: 7 I am having my model to convergence with larger time step as 10s instead of 1s. I do not understand why is it so since in common sense smaller time step is much accurate and much accurate. Please help. Why is it so?

September 16, 2011, 15:12
#2
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Amir
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by wlt_1985 I am having my model to convergence with larger time step as 10s instead of 1s. I do not understand why is it so since in common sense smaller time step is much accurate and much accurate. Please help. Why is it so?
Dear Raymond,

It's not strange! As you know, convergency and accuracy are two different things. In linear cases, a consistent and stable case is certainly convergent but in non linear cases they are necessary conditions but not sufficient for convergency. But accuracy in both cases is totally different; by reducing your time step, accuracy is improved but we don't have a general rule for convergency in non linear cases.
I think that if your numerical procedure is correct, we can conclude that when you set dt= 10 sec your case is convergent to wrong results but in dt= 1 sec, there would be a potential to reach to accurate results but it faces convergency issues which can be resolved by lowering time step or other techniques. hope that help you.

Bests,
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Amir

September 17, 2011, 04:40
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raymond
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Amir Dear Raymond, It's not strange! As you know, convergency and accuracy are two different things. In linear cases, a consistent and stable case is certainly convergent but in non linear cases they are necessary conditions but not sufficient for convergency. But accuracy in both cases is totally different; by reducing your time step, accuracy is improved but we don't have a general rule for convergency in non linear cases. I think that if your numerical procedure is correct, we can conclude that when you set dt= 10 sec your case is convergent to wrong results but in dt= 1 sec, there would be a potential to reach to accurate results but it faces convergency issues which can be resolved by lowering time step or other techniques. hope that help you. Bests,
Thanks Amir. My model shows me error and unable to run if I am using time step size=1s. I accidentally using larger time step size=10s and the model is able to run but it is unable to be validated with my experiment results due to its different pattern in results. I am using even larger time step size=20s and the results are much reasonable compared to time step size=10s. I am using the default setting of coupled algorithm with courant number=200. Is it too big? Is it the main factors affecting my results? I do not understand why larger time step size much better from smaller time step size from views of accuracy and convergence? I afraid that that is due to wrong setting to the model since I need that model to simulate another studies. Please help. Thanks for your help.
Attached Images
 cfd result time step size 10s.jpg (49.0 KB, 16 views) experiment data.jpg (40.4 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by wlt_1985; September 17, 2011 at 04:48. Reason: attachment for results

September 17, 2011, 09:00
#4
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Amir
Join Date: May 2009
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by wlt_1985 Thanks Amir. My model shows me error and unable to run if I am using time step size=1s. I accidentally using larger time step size=10s and the model is able to run but it is unable to be validated with my experiment results due to its different pattern in results. I am using even larger time step size=20s and the results are much reasonable compared to time step size=10s. I am using the default setting of coupled algorithm with courant number=200. Is it too big? Is it the main factors affecting my results? I do not understand why larger time step size much better from smaller time step size from views of accuracy and convergence? I afraid that that is due to wrong setting to the model since I need that model to simulate another studies. Please help. Thanks for your help.
Dear Raymond,

Certainly, reducing time step can improve temporal accuracy but in coupled form of solvers, courant No has its own effects. Although for your case the default setting is 200 which means that in linear form it's unconditionally stable but non linear form has some restriction over that, so it's recommended to start with lower courant No and then increase it in some stages. I suggest you to read chapter 25 of user guide which can really help you.

Bests,
__________________
Amir

 September 18, 2011, 15:04 #5 Senior Member   Mohammad Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Shiraz, Iran Posts: 108 Rep Power: 7 hi, in addition to what amir said, you can try checking and changing some boundary conditions and settings if needed and dont forget about the grid. bad grid can do anything you never thought! but after all, explainig more about your case and the options you've chosen can bring you more useful helps. yours, mohammad

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