
[Sponsors] 
How to determine time step size and Max. iterations per time step. 

LinkBack  Thread Tools  Display Modes 
March 6, 2012, 15:41 
How to determine time step size and Max. iterations per time step.

#1 
New Member
Pratik
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 6 
I am trying to simulate airflow through a room and am performing a transient calculation. Could someone please tell me how to determine time step size and max iterations per time step?


March 7, 2012, 04:47 

#2 
Senior Member
Daniele
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 992
Rep Power: 17 
Hi,
A rule of thumb is to set time step< deltax/u where deltax is the smallest cell size and u is the velocity. Usually I set max iteration per time step equal to 50 or 100, depending on residual values (if I want convergence at 10^3 ^4 I set near 50, if I want 10^7 closest to 100). Daniele 

March 7, 2012, 05:38 

#3 
New Member
Pratik
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 6 
Sorry I am quite new to this. Could you please tell me how to determine the smallest cell size?. And also what number of time steps would I need?


March 7, 2012, 05:52 

#4 
Senior Member
Daniele
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 992
Rep Power: 17 
Pratick,
the smallest cell size can be determined from your grid. If you have done your grid with your pre processor, gambit for example, you know what is the cell size, and where your domain is more refined. If you have for example one of the smallest quad cell measuring 0.001x0.005, then your smallest cell size will be 0.001. If you have tri cell then take the smallest side of the cell. The total number of time steps depends on your simulation: it can be 1 s or 20 s (i.e. total number of time step=1s/timestep or 20s/time step), it depends on your system and on what you are looking for. If this is your case, you can estimate and take into account a transient period and a period in which your system reaches a pseudosteady state. Daniele 

March 7, 2012, 06:28 

#5 
New Member
Pratik
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 11
Rep Power: 6 
Thank You Danielle.


March 9, 2012, 16:20 

#6  
Senior Member
duri
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 160
Rep Power: 8 
Quote:
Start with some characteristic length to characteristic velocity ratio. Reduce or increase the time step by an order based on the no. of iterations it takes to converge. 

March 11, 2012, 05:59 

#7  
New Member
sanjay
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0 
Hi Daniele,
It would be better to adjust the time step such that maximum iteration/time step not more then 20. If Solution is not converging within this pseudo time step (iteration) then prefer to decrease physical time step. Quote:


March 12, 2012, 11:42 

#8 
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 422
Rep Power: 12 
I want to ask what is the role of Courant No. in determining the time step size??
As we know Courant No. = velocity*delta(t)/delta(x), by this equation time step size is directly proportional to Courant No, so can we use bigger time step size by increasing the Courant No. ??? 

March 13, 2012, 14:02 

#9  
Member
banty
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 52
Rep Power: 6 
But in case of wave tracking, even with the implicit solver time step should be taken such that wave should be not move more then one cell in single time step.
Quote:


March 13, 2012, 14:25 

#10  
Member
banty
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 52
Rep Power: 6 
Role of Courant no depends upon the solvers setng.
In case of pressure based and density based (both explicit and implicit) solver with backward euler (1st and 2nd order), time step(physical time step) is entered by the user based on physics involved and CFL no & no of sub iteration decides the speed of convergence. But in case of explicitexplicit density based solver, time step (physical time step) is decided by the CFL no (User Input) and based on Courant No. = velocity*delta(t)/delta(x). Quote:


March 13, 2012, 15:52 

#11  
Senior Member
duri
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 160
Rep Power: 8 
Quote:


March 18, 2012, 23:34 

#12 
Member
Mahindra
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 59
Rep Power: 5 
Hello
I am doing analysis of flow past circular cylinder. Can anyone suggest me what are the solver settings? And how to calculate time step? Regards Mahindra 

June 19, 2013, 07:10 

#13 
Member
Yash Ganatra
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 67
Rep Power: 5 
Is it steady state or transient?


June 19, 2013, 11:09 
time step

#14 
Senior Member
Tanjina Afrin
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 168
Rep Power: 5 
Hi,
I have also similar question, but couldn't find any definite answer. i am trying to model a flow through a circular pipe from a rectangular reservoir. I used workbench for meshing. It's triangular mesh. element size is 6e3m. How can I determine time step. I modeled 3D. I couldn't find any option called iteration/time step, but in may tutorial I saw it. 

June 20, 2013, 02:31 

#15 
Member
Yash Ganatra
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 67
Rep Power: 5 
Post some more details. Attach photos of the mesh.
1. Is it steady state or transient? 2. Laminar or turbulent? You can find the option in FLUENT in the Run Calculation settings in the Problem Setup tab on the left 

June 20, 2013, 10:03 

#16 
Senior Member
Tanjina Afrin
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 168
Rep Power: 5 
Hi,
This is 3D transient time, turbulent two phase flow problem . I have attached two photo with this reply. please have a look on calculation setting photo. More details : I want to let the water flow from the reservoir to circular pipe and let air fill up the empty place of reservoir which will be created after water going to reservoir. 

June 20, 2013, 12:15 

#17 
Member
Yash Ganatra
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 67
Rep Power: 5 
I see that divergence is being detected? For which quantity (momentum,energy etc) it is getting detected? Are you using VOF Model?Can't this be done in 2D also?Give snaps of Solution Methods and control ; from what I make out by referring to various threads, if the solution is not converging better to reduce time step.
See literature  a similar problem, what was the time stepping used ; 

June 20, 2013, 17:16 

#18 
Senior Member
Tanjina Afrin
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 168
Rep Power: 5 
I see that divergence is being detected? For which quantity (momentum,energy etc) it is getting detected? Are you using VOF Model?Can't this be done in 2D also?Give snaps of Solution Methods and control ; from what I make out by referring to various threads, if the solution is not converging better to reduce time step.
See literature  a similar problem, what was the time stepping used ; At First, it showed AMG divergence: xmomentum. then I reduce momentum in relaxation factor from 1 to 0.7, 0.1. then model completed its run. But residual is not decreasing. its increasing with saw tooth shape. yea I have used VOF model. Actually pipe is circular and tank is rectangular, so I didn't understand how can I model it in 2D. Please find the screenshot of solution method and control. 

June 21, 2013, 01:34 

#19 
Member
Yash Ganatra
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 67
Rep Power: 5 
Hi,
What I meant was that you can model the cross section. Why have you used Non Iterative Time Advancement? I have never worked with it so I have no idea about this. Check if your boundary conditions are correct. Are those the default solution methods? I did a quick search and found this thread. Hopefully it will help you. Error: Divergence detected in AMG solver: xmomentum 

June 21, 2013, 14:15 

#20 
Senior Member
Tanjina Afrin
Join Date: May 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 168
Rep Power: 5 
I just followed the step described in Tutorial 20, ink jet problem. My problem was little bit similar to that. That's why I used non iterative time advancement.
I reduced under relaxation factor, after doing that model run its full time step I specified, but result was not expected. I think I make some mistake in inlet BC. Can you suggest me anything about BC? I can describe what I want to model and what I used in BC if you are interested. 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Time step size and max iterations per time step  pUl  FLUENT  31  August 21, 2015 04:46 
Superlinear speedup in OpenFOAM 13  msrinath80  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  18  March 3, 2015 06:36 
Time step size, number of time steps and max iterations per time step  guido_88  FLUENT  4  August 30, 2012 14:49 
icoLagrangianFoam OF1.6 myNewParticleSolver  heavy_user  OpenFOAM  16  February 11, 2012 06:15 
Transient simulation not converging  skabilan  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  12  September 17, 2007 17:48 