
[Sponsors] 
November 20, 2012, 16:33 
(Need help!)Question about permeability calculation

#1 
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Hi,
We can calculate the permeability by the following law, u=q/Ac=(k/mu)(dp/dl) u= fluid velocity q= flow rate k= permeability Ac= cross sectional area mu= viscosity of the fluid l= length dp/dl= pressure gradient in the direction of the flow May I ask, for u=0 and dp/dl=0, what the permeability value is? Is it infinitely large? I need that value to estimate(by interpolation) the permeability at low speed. Thank you very much!
__________________
Best regards, Meimei Last edited by Anna Tian; November 23, 2012 at 14:23. 

November 20, 2012, 22:25 

#2 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
Permeability is a constant for low flow rates (i.e. Darcy regime). You can see from the expression that you give that if you plot u vs dp/dl k/mu is the slope of the line. At zero flow the permeability is still a constant; your equation just reduces to 0=0 since both velocity and dp/dl are zero.


November 21, 2012, 03:21 

#3  
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
Is there a way to calculate the permeability at low speed manually?(We have CFD data for higher flow speed but not low flow speed. We need an estimation of the permeability at low speed.) How do you define 'low speed'? What do you mean by 'Darcy regime'? I search for this concept online but didn't find anything. Could you suggest me a paper about permeability calculation?
__________________
Best regards, Meimei Last edited by Anna Tian; November 23, 2012 at 14:34. 

November 23, 2012, 14:34 

#4 
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Could anyone help me on this question? Thank you very much!
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

November 23, 2012, 14:41 

#5 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
Hi, you should look up Darcy's law including the extended form of Forchheimer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darcy's_law). The extended form adds a quadratic velocity term. This should be what you need if your flow is not slow (i.e. pressure drop is not linear with velocity). In this case fit a quadratic curve to your pressure vs velocity data and from the coefficients you can find the permeability (and the coefficient on the quadratic term if you need it).


November 23, 2012, 15:01 

#6  
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
Thanks for your answer. I looked at the page. I calculated the permeability with the data for high flow velocity(the data I have) in that way. But now I need an estimation of the permeability for low speed flow. At least I need to know the way to calculate the permeability for zero velocity. These contents are not included in that page.
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

November 23, 2012, 15:09 

#7 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
Permeability is a constant. It should work for zero velocity as well. I suggest looking up the book "Principles of Heat Transfer in Porous Media" by Kaviany. It is a really thorough book and I think it will answer your questions.


November 23, 2012, 15:41 

#8  
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
Really? Permeability is the same for all the flow velocity? If it's only for low velocity, is there a way to calculate it manually?
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

November 23, 2012, 15:46 

#9 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
In the context of the extended Darcy law yes it can be treated as a constant. If you don't retain the quadratic term and just use Darcy's law then permeability will change with velocity when the velocity gets large. A constant permeability simply means that at low flow rates the pressure drop is linearly related to the flow rate. To put this another way, permeability is a function of pore geometry only. The quadratic term treats influences of inertia.


November 23, 2012, 15:52 

#10 
New Member
lyes
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 6 
Hey you can contact me to send you interesting materials on permeability.
Regards 

November 23, 2012, 15:55 

#11  
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
How do you define 'low speed'? Laminar?
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

November 23, 2012, 16:04 

#12 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
By low speed, I mean that the pressure drop is linear with respect to velocity
I don't mean laminar. For porous media flows, usually the Reynolds number based on pore diameter should be less than one to be considered low speed (i.e. Darcy's law is valid), but it depends a bit on what geometry you are looking at. If you plot pressure drop vs. flow velocity and it is not a straight line then you can assume that the flow speed is not low enough. 

November 24, 2012, 08:16 

#13  
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

November 24, 2012, 17:21 

#14 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
At higher flow rates the slope will be higher, i.e. more pressure loss for the same increase in flow rate.


November 25, 2012, 13:57 

#15  
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
So a reasonable permeability vs. velocity graph should look like the attached picture?
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

November 25, 2012, 14:22 

#16 
Senior Member
Chris DeGroot
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Posts: 387
Rep Power: 6 
Yes if you are just using dp/dl=mu/k*u with no quadratic velocity term the yes that graph could make sense. The slope is practically vertical on the right part of the graph which I don't think would happen. But the trend seems right.


August 17, 2013, 05:30 

#17 
Senior Member
Meimei Wang
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 494
Rep Power: 7 
I'd like to include the inertia loss term. May I ask what is the formula to compute the loss coefficient for the nonlinear term? And if the loss term has to be included then the extended Darcy law with the inertia loss term need to be used. So we can't use the simplified Darcy law formula that we discussed before in this post to compute the permeability anymore. Then how to compute the permeability?
__________________
Best regards, Meimei 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
How to continue calculation after the computer is abruptly shut off?  superqtp  CFX  5  September 25, 2012 08:53 
The calculation efficiency of OpenFOAM  chiven  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  4  September 14, 2009 04:44 
Solver and geometry choose for drag coefficient calculation around circular cylinder at large Re  lin  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  3  April 16, 2009 10:50 
Warning 097  AB  CDadapco  6  November 15, 2004 05:41 
question  K.L.Huang  CDadapco  1  March 29, 2000 04:57 