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Dynamic SGS model procedure in Large eddy simulation

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Old   October 13, 2013, 12:17
Default Dynamic SGS model procedure in Large eddy simulation
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Mohammadreza
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Dear guys
i'm working on kiva-3v and make smagorinsky and k-delta one-eq SGS models. the standard forms have been done and now i'm going to make sgs eddy viscosity in the dynamic form for both models.

i have one question. as you know dynamic procedure needs at least one level explicit filter which i use top hat for nodes. first i have all nodes velocity fields and i choose one direction to use a filter (actually it is not true but lets think just x direction in xyz system). i make a averaged value of all quantity i need to use in dynamic eq and use top hat three grid for three side by side cells in the x direction. you know kiva choose node by ifirst to ncells and it can call the front and back nodes by some commands so i use this procedure in kiva to make my dynamic form.

my question is this, is it a true way to make a dynamic filtering procedure? should i make filtering in all three direction and choose the averaged value? i just read some papers that recommend to use dynamic filtering in streamline.

what do you suggest me?
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Old   October 13, 2013, 18:07
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Originally Posted by mrf6166 View Post
Dear guys
i'm working on kiva-3v and make smagorinsky and k-delta one-eq SGS models. the standard forms have been done and now i'm going to make sgs eddy viscosity in the dynamic form for both models.

i have one question. as you know dynamic procedure needs at least one level explicit filter which i use top hat for nodes. first i have all nodes velocity fields and i choose one direction to use a filter (actually it is not true but lets think just x direction in xyz system). i make a averaged value of all quantity i need to use in dynamic eq and use top hat three grid for three side by side cells in the x direction. you know kiva choose node by ifirst to ncells and it can call the front and back nodes by some commands so i use this procedure in kiva to make my dynamic form.

my question is this, is it a true way to make a dynamic filtering procedure? should i make filtering in all three direction and choose the averaged value? i just read some papers that recommend to use dynamic filtering in streamline.

what do you suggest me?

In principle, the type of test filtering for the dynamic procedure has not to be equal to the main one. That means you can use a 2D test filtering, this happens commonly for plane channel flow.
Note that for Cartesian grids, three subsequent 1D filter along x,y and z corresponds to a 3D filter over a volume.
A more specific answer depends on the problem you are solving.
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Old   October 14, 2013, 02:31
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Mohammadreza
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Thank you.
I think in some way i get your meaning. but let me give some more explanation to get more to my problem
http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPU...ks/22fig03.jpg
just consider one cells plane, then consider one row of that plane, is it true to act dynamic procedure by three side cells (top hat) and after finishing the row, just change and go to next row and go on,till finish the plane and go to next plane and go on...? (sth like we do in TDMA algorithm for 3d grid)?
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Old   October 14, 2013, 03:41
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Originally Posted by mrf6166 View Post
Thank you.
I think in some way i get your meaning. but let me give some more explanation to get more to my problem
http://http.developer.nvidia.com/GPU...ks/22fig03.jpg
just consider one cells plane, then consider one row of that plane, is it true to act dynamic procedure by three side cells (top hat) and after finishing the row, just change and go to next row and go on,till finish the plane and go to next plane and go on...? (sth like we do in TDMA algorithm for 3d grid)?
1) do you want a 2d or a 3d test filtering?
2) what about your test-to-grid filter ratio, you wanto to fix the value =2?
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Old   October 14, 2013, 05:29
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1)i dont get your meaning by 2d or 3d test filter. what i have done, is sth like i explaned about the picture above in 3d mesh grid. i want to know if it is right or wrong and for your explanation about 2d or 3d test filter, i think it should be sth 1d test filter!

2) about my test-to-grid ration, i use grid filter as single cell volume^(0.33) and use three side by side cells volumes^(0.33) as test filter length. so in different position it gives me different test-to-grid ration between almost 1.2 to 2.7, again is this procedure true?
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Old   October 14, 2013, 07:19
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Originally Posted by mrf6166 View Post
1)i dont get your meaning by 2d or 3d test filter. what i have done, is sth like i explaned about the picture above in 3d mesh grid. i want to know if it is right or wrong and for your explanation about 2d or 3d test filter, i think it should be sth 1d test filter!

2) about my test-to-grid ration, i use grid filter as single cell volume^(0.33) and use three side by side cells volumes^(0.33) as test filter length. so in different position it gives me different test-to-grid ration between almost 1.2 to 2.7, again is this procedure true?

1) the type of test filtering depends also on the flow problem, if your problem is a plane channel flow,e.g. homogeneous in the x and z directions (stream-wise and spanwise), you can do a 2d filter, (an area average) in x,z for example using a 3x3 stencil. If you are solving homogeneous isotropic turbulence, a 3d test filtering (that is a volume average) should be considered, for example over a 3x3x3 stencil.

2) the test-to-grid ratio is an input parameter in the dynamic procedure, do you think to use a variable value depending on the local position? That implies some difference in the procedure
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Old   October 14, 2013, 08:11
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my grid is a engine cylinder with intake-exhaust port and combustion chamber geometry, which dose not allow me to use a uniform mesh. so i think i have to use a dynamic procedure with test-to-grid ratio by position and can't to use a constant ratio. consider a cylinder with a axis in z direction. i use a plane to do my dynamic procedure. for example between z=10mm and z=11 mm, all cells cubic cells between these planes are considered. i averaged of all node value firstly to make a averaged value for 8 nodes of each cells, then use three side by side cells and make a top hat 3-node filter. use this procedure for all cells of the plane then shift to other plane and use the same procedure.
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Old   October 14, 2013, 09:09
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my grid is a engine cylinder with intake-exhaust port and combustion chamber geometry, which dose not allow me to use a uniform mesh. so i think i have to use a dynamic procedure with test-to-grid ratio by position and can't to use a constant ratio. consider a cylinder with a axis in z direction. i use a plane to do my dynamic procedure. for example between z=10mm and z=11 mm, all cells cubic cells between these planes are considered. i averaged of all node value firstly to make a averaged value for 8 nodes of each cells, then use three side by side cells and make a top hat 3-node filter. use this procedure for all cells of the plane then shift to other plane and use the same procedure.

you have also a piston moving in it?
I think you have to build, for each computational node, a local volume surrounding it in such a way that a 3D volume average can be computed. If you are using a structured grid a 3x3x3 local grid stencil can be used.
The numerical implementation can be done following your idea, fix a z=constant plane compute and store the area average values and repeat for each z plane. Then, compute the 1D average along z by using the 2D averaged field.
But if you are using an unstructured grid the number of volumes depends on the topology and the procedure can be more complex.

The final filtered field can be used in the dynamic procedure. However, the filter-to-grid ratio value must be also evaluated correctly.
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Old   October 14, 2013, 13:10
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please consider this image

for each cell, i have 4 node. so i compute the averaged value of velocity component (u,v,w) for each cell by its 8 nodes. then consider cell1,2 and 3 in row 1 @ z=cte, i use top hat test filter by these three cell, in the direction of row 1 axis, then i use this method to finish all cells in row 1 and go to next row (row2 and ...)
after finishing all the row of z=cte, i goto next plane in another z position
how does that procedure sound?
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Old   October 14, 2013, 13:26
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I have to distinguish between the test filtering procedure and its numerical implementation ...
If you want to use a top-hat filter, in a 2d plane say (x,y), you have to chose its width. Therefore, you write the continuous expression:

f_test(x,y) = (1/Deltax/Deltay) * Int [y-Deltay/2,y+Deltay/2] dy' Int[x-Deltax/2,x+Deltax/2] f(x',y') dx'

For example, you can choose Deltax=2*Dx and Deltay=2*Dy.

Now you have to numerically compute the above integrals by using a proper discretization. For example, you can use a 2D Simpson rule. Therefore, centred at i,j you need of a stencil of 9 nodes going from i-1,j-1 up to i+1,j+1. The weights of the integration formula can be found in many textbooks. You can do that for any i,j nodes in the x,y plane. Then repeat for all the z planes.
Finally, if you want to make the test filter three-dimensional, you have to average again the 2d filtered field using the 1d formula for the z direction.
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