CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > General Forums > Main CFD Forum

Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosity

Register Blogs Community New Posts Updated Threads Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   November 17, 2007, 17:48
Default Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosity
  #1
Pradu
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sutherland's relation gives the viscosity for air as a function of temperature only. Can this relation still be used in high-speed compressible flow? If not, are there any known relations at high speeds and temperatures for air's viscosity, heat generated due to viscosity, and thermal conduction?
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 17, 2007, 22:10
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #2
Ahmed
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
both relations (for viscosity and thermal conductivity) are valid as long as the air does not reach the limit of dissociation
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 17, 2007, 22:23
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #3
Anton Lyaskin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Application of Sutherland relation is actually limited by temperature. The limit is about 1700..1900K (different sources give different values). There are some papers about modifications to Sutherland relation for higher temperature, but most of them are not publicly available. From annotations to them I've got the idea that the trick is to change the exponent. So I've used the formula like this

viscosity = 1.899e-7 * T ^ 1.74 / (T - 296.7)

It gives you more or less smooth transition from Sutherland and fits pretty well with experimental data. The problem is that if you go for even higher temperature, like 3000K or more, you'll get chemical reactions (dissociation of O2, formation of NO and NO2 and etc). So if you'll need precise viscosity calculation, you should calculate it as for a mixture of different gases, taking into the account local concentration of all these species.
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 18, 2007, 01:33
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #4
Pradu
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
> viscosity = 1.899e-7 * T ^ ( 1.74 / (T - 296.7) )

Nice. What are the units for T and viscosity? If I assume Kelvin and kg/(m*s) it doesn't come out to be very close to Sutherland's relation at low temperatures.

Also the given formula will peak at T=296.7 Tunits, so after what temperature is the given formula valid.
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 18, 2007, 01:57
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #5
Pradu
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Sorry, it does correspond to Sutherland's. I guess one can start using your proposed relation after 1900K:

http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gtg365v.../Viscosity.png

Where did you get the experimental data for the fit? Is it accessible to the public?
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 18, 2007, 08:45
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #6
Anton Lyaskin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Yes, you're right about units. It's for use at high temperatures only (above 1700...1900K) - at lower temperatures it will of course differ from Sutherland
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 18, 2007, 08:51
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #7
Anton Lyaskin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
As for the data source - I'll have to search my archives, because it was 4 years ago. Either it was something publicly available found by googling, or it was a Dutch textbook on high-speed aerodynamics from one of my colleagues (it was from Delft TU and had no references)
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 19, 2007, 06:51
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #8
George
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You can also use the polyonims data fits from NASA. They also give the coefficiens, and they follow the same methodology as for calculating Cp
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 20, 2007, 03:24
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #9
Anton Lyaskin
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I have polynomial approximation found here

http://users.wpi.edu/~ierardi/FireTools/air_prop.html

but it also has a limitation at 1600K.

George, could you please give a link to NASA polynomials?

As for my approximation, now I remember where it came from - I found the idea in the publicly available annotation to a classified paper (my request for this paper should be somewhere at the forum). In the annotation there was a new value of the exponent (i.e 1.74), so I've just adjusted the other coefficients to have smooth transition from Sutherland at 1900.

Anyway, 1900K is pretty close to the point where chemistry starts to play a big part (it will depend upon pressure also).
  Reply With Quote

Old   November 21, 2007, 05:09
Default Re: Question on Sutherland's Relation and Viscosit
  #10
George
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
I am on holidays at the moment and I have no idea where I found them. I just remember that it was a .pdf file containing coefficients for hundreds of chemical species. When I return home next week I will let you know.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
effective viscosity sajad_abasi CFX 3 October 7, 2011 12:40
Is the Newton's law of viscosity false in this condition??? abrahamgx Main CFD Forum 10 July 8, 2009 05:34
complex viscosity on CFD franjav Main CFD Forum 0 April 16, 2007 00:26


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:45.