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Old   July 26, 2001, 08:27
Default Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #1
Li Yang
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Dear Sir,

Could you please recommend me two good books at entry level about turbulence or turbulent flow?

Thank you very much in advance.

Li Yang
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Old   July 26, 2001, 08:39
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
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Sebastien Perron
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I Don't know if we can call it an entry level book. But one IMO one of the best book on turbumence is the one written by Wilcox.
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Old   July 26, 2001, 08:54
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #3
wang
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If you want to know turbulence modelling for CFD, Wilcox's book is a good introduction book: Turbulence modelling for CFD.
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Old   July 26, 2001, 09:54
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #4
Li Yang
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Dear Sebastien and Wang,

Thank you very much.

I think I want to read something about the basics of turbulence. From CFD-online books guide, I noticed that the following book is Readers' Favorite:

A First Course in Turbulence By Hendrik Tennekes and John L. Lumley

Is this the book I, as a beginner, should start with? Any other books?

Regards

Li Yang
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Old   July 26, 2001, 10:41
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #5
wang
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Yes, the book of Tennekes & Lumley is a good introduction about turbulence theory.
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Old   July 26, 2001, 11:06
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #6
NAME
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In my opinion there is no introductory book on Turbulence. People tend to say that T&L is a good introduction but I didn't really like it... I would suggest getting your hands on a few books on turbulence.. read similar chapters from each until you understand...

LaComb,Hinze, Brodkey (The Phenomena of Fluid Motion), Frisch...etc...
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Old   July 26, 2001, 11:29
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #7
Herve
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T.&L I find good as well as Wilcox book for modelling. There's also the book of M.Lesieur "Turbulence" which is very interesting and try to grasp the whole physics of turbulence.
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Old   July 26, 2001, 12:44
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #8
Li Yang
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LaComb ? Can you give the name of his book. Thank you.
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Old   July 26, 2001, 13:52
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #9
John C. Chien
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(1). You shoud read the "boundary layer theory" by Schlichting.
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Old   July 26, 2001, 15:10
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #10
Frederic Felten
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For a good introduction check:

"Introduction to Turbulence." Paul, A., Libby Taylor and Francis, 1996. ISBN: 1-56032-100-8

Sincerely,

Frederic Felten
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Old   July 26, 2001, 16:48
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #11
Li Yang
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Dear Mr. Chien and Mr. Felten,

Thank you for your reply.

Follow your suggestions, I've got a plan to read(1) "boundary layer theory" by Schlichting; (2) "Introduction to Turbulence." By Paul, A., Libby Taylor and Francis; (3) Possibly "A First Course in Turbulence" By Hendrik Tennekes and John L. Lumley, (4) . by Hinze, Brodkey, Frisch...etc

Well, Turbulence is rather scary to me.

I noticed there are some other books i.e. "An Introduction to Turbulent Flow" by Jean Mathieu and Julian Scott, 2000, "Turbulent Flow" by R.J. Garde 1995 and "Turbulent Flow" by Stephen Bailey Pope 2000. They are relatively new, but I wonder if they are good for a beginner like me.

I wish there is a book about turbulence like Anderson' Aerodynamics, Toro's Riemann Solver or Patankar's SIMPLE method.

Thank you again for your suggestions.

Li Yang
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Old   July 26, 2001, 17:31
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #12
John C. Chien
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(1). Real world flows are mostly turbulent flows. (2). Turbulence in engineering applications comes from the wall boundary layers and free shear layers. So, it is important to study these types of flows starting from the laminar flow side. (3). After that, you will have to study the Reynolds averaging method and the resulting Reynolds equations, which serve as the starting point of traditional analysis. (4). To formulate the problem, the open ended Reynolds equations must be closed by supplying the needed turbulence model which can be simple mixing length formula or two-equation k-epsilon models,etc. (5). With the turbulence model defined, it can be used to provide needed information for the Reynolds stresses terms in the momentum equations,which will provide the flow field solution. (5). So, the general steps are: (a). the nature of boundary layer equation, (b). the process of Reynolds averaging, (c). the open-end Reynolds equation and Reynolds stresses, (d). turbulence modeling for Reynolds stresses terms and the closure of the equations, (e). solution of governing equations along with the turbulence model and equations. (6). Once you have the solution, you can make comparison with the experimental data and modify the turbulence model to improve the prediction. (7). So, the key issue in the prediction of turbulence flows is: turbulence modeling. And since there is no general model which will give right solution for every occasion, the solution can only be validated on the case-by-case basis. (while the laminar flow solution is more a function of the mesh and the algorithm used only) (8). In a way, the turbulence is like the stock market index chart, it fluctuates all the time with a lot of uncertainty .
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Old   July 26, 2001, 17:33
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #13
NAME
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Sorry, its McComb. The Physics of Turbulence

There is also Turbulent flows by S.B. Pope. 2000 I liked this book.

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Old   July 27, 2001, 04:12
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #14
Li Yang
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Thank you, Mr. Chien, I learned a lot from your explanations.

I've got experience in using Baldwin-Lomax model before. I am now interested in two-equation models or even LES. I think I may need to learn some basics about turbulent flow in order to understand those two equation models written in Wilcox's book better. I asked you all to recommend me some good books in order that I could learn more effectively and efficiently.

I always feel that good books are just like good teachers. When I got good books then I've got good teachers around me. But I think I will have to spend some years to read all those books and eventually have a better understanding about turbulence.

Thank you again for your help.

Li Yang
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Old   July 27, 2001, 04:45
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
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Li Yang
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Thanks a lot !
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Old   July 27, 2001, 11:32
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #16
Guus Jacobs
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I think Tennekes is a bit outdated. However, it is a really nice book for introductory material. A couple of years I I had a turbulence class from a book from Nieuwstadt and I think it's one of the best books around. Unfortunately it is in Dutch. I also ready Libby's book and personally I found it a bit messy. I heard Pope's book is supposed to be really good and up to date. Wilcox and Schlichting are books that are not really focused on turbulence, but there are definitely a couple of nice introductory pages.

Guus
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Old   July 27, 2001, 14:16
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #17
kalyan
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I am a bit surprised no one mentioned Monin and Yaglom. It is a good book on scaling arguments, phenomenology and has extensive compilations of experimental data (some in the form of correlations). It is not very useful for modeling though.
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Old   July 30, 2001, 04:00
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
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B. Anders Pettersson Reif
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Have a look at http://catalog2.wiley.com/catalog/fr...I2fDA1,00.html

Sincerely,

Anders
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Old   July 30, 2001, 05:59
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #19
John C. Chien
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(1). It took me a few minutes to locate the book. Here is the information from the publisher. Apparently it is a new book, and I have not seen it yet.

Statistical Theory and Modeling for Turbulent Flows

P. A. Durbin, Stanford Univ., Stanford B. A. Petterson Reif, Norwegian Defence Research Establishment, Norway

ISBN: 0-471-49744-4 Paperback Price: US$59.95 Pages: 302 Published: Feb 2001 Copyright: 2001 Imprint: John Wiley & Sons Ltd

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Most natural and industrial flows are turbulent. The atmosphere and oceans, automobile and aircraft engines, all provide examples of this ubiquitous phenomenon. In recent years, turbulence has become a very lively area of scientific research and application, and this work offers a grounding in the subject of turbulence, developing both the physical insight and the mathematical framework needed to express the theory. Providing a solid foundation in the key topics in turbulence, this valuable reference resource enables the reader to become a knowledgeable developer of predictive tools.

This central and broad ranging topic would be of interest to graduate students in a broad range of subjects, including aeronautical and mechanical engineering, applied mathematics and the physical sciences. The accompanying solutions manual to the text also makes this a valuable teaching tool for lecturers and for practising engineers and scientists in computational and experimental and experimental fluid dynamics.
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Old   August 22, 2001, 14:01
Default Re: Books on Turbulence or Turbulent Flow
  #20
David Creech
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See the CFD Books Guide, <A HREF="http://www.cfd-online.com/Books/show_book.php?book_id=229">http://www.cfd-online.com/Books/show_book.php?book_id=229</a> for more information on this book.

Best Regards, David Creech
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