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Old   September 25, 2001, 03:55
Default Re: Traps
  #21
Jon
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Perhaps you are forgetting that we are simply a computer, made from a complex network of neurons. I suppose, that a computer that was given a 'survival instinct' would act as we would and perhaps create its own computers given the resources. Then perhaps, it could question the same as you have been doing about cfd/computing/human (computer) nature.

Whether this is a CFD discussion is debatable. It depends if this is simply for 'cfd-people' to discuss cfd or for 'cfd-people' to just discuss.

I agree with 'Mr Me', that its, perhaps, more interesting as an open discussion forum of the 'cfd-people', than simply a place to do your homework. If you're not interested, then you can comment/read from another of the discussions on the issues of cfd you are interested in.

I suppose it depends what Jonus thinks. Jonus?
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Old   September 25, 2001, 11:51
Default Re: Traps, talking to a computer
  #22
John C. Chien
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(1). "Perhaps you are forgetting that we are simply a computer", ....???? (2)."it could question the same as you have been doing about cfd/computing/human (computer) nature. ",....!!!! (3). The important thing is, someone is writing, someone else is reading, and somehow there are people thinking, then someone else is writing, someone is then reading,....????!!!! (4). I really have a lot of other things to do. And I don't think this forum is really useful for people who are doing real CFD, even if it has the name CFD in it. (5). This is because, it is difficult to present useful information here in terms of "numerical analysis" which requires the use of math equations. The same is true for the math modeling, it also requires a lot of equations. (6). So, the best one can do is to present his useless experience, which no one think is going to work. (7). The other thing is this forum is clearly supported by software vendors, and there are other sections dedicated to the commercial codes discussion. So, it is very hard to present useful information here. If you are already rich enough to spend your time and money in commercial codes, then why come here for additional "free stuff" in this free flea market? (8). The only reason why this is the case is " people don't like to talk to the commercial codes or computers, they like to get some comments from real people. In other words, they are isolated, they are surrounded by computers, and they are becoming to think that they are also computers. So, their human instinct tell them to go out and find out whether they are still alive. (9). When people no longer have the ability to tell death from live, funny things start to happen. (10). It is a joke to say that one can come here to learn CFD and be able to follow the instruction step-by-step and come up with a way to solve his multi-phase problem. (11). What this forum can do is at most to show him that there are still people behaving nearly like computers, looking for what they called CFD solutions. (12). Actually, they don't respond to the comments related to the CFD at all. Their interest is to show that they are still the human being which is capable of displaying human behavior such as anger, ability to say what they like and what they don't like. In terms of the real CFD answer, whether it is right or wrong (99% are wrong, but then this is a free flea market), the reader reacts like a computer. They just take it and express his appreciation. (13). The world is war-like environment all the time. As people becoming more computer-like, it is harder to know how to fight a war. Because there is no human rules to follow, life and death are the same for a computer, it never complains. (14). Well, there are so-called books on CFD. So, readers should be able to digest it and become expert in CFD. There are also schools where one can learn CFD from professors and get his or her advanced degree. CFD gurus almost never visited this place and made a comment. How many times have you seen a CFD professor answering questions here. Most of them either are trying to sell you their codes or their books. In the traditional oriental society, they are now at the bottom of the society. Well, that is consistent with this free flea market idea. (15). I don't think you will be able to find a treasure in this free flea market. But you sure can pretend that even if you are nearly a computer, you still have the desire to find out whether there are still human being out there. (16). And the only way to find out is to express your human nature of anger, like or dislike. On the computer screen, you see only electronic pixels. That's all. The same is true when using a commercial code. On one hand, they think that being computer-like is the right choice, on the other hand they are afraid of missing their human behavior. (17). It is a never ending trap, between human and computer. That is tragedy. Life is erasable, expendable, just like a computer file, CFD solution, etc.
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Old   September 27, 2001, 13:47
Default Re: Traps, talking to a computer
  #23
devils advocate
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John (1)did you pass the Turing test?
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Old   September 27, 2001, 14:47
Default Well, Even Devils Are Reading CFD Online
  #24
John C. Chien
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(1). We know that it is not real, but we know that this place is open to anyone who is interested in CFD. (2). So, What is your CFD question? or Philosophy? or comment?
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Old   September 28, 2001, 07:32
Default Re: Well, Even Devils Are Reading CFD Online
  #25
Christian Hartman
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Dear John,

I have enjoyed this debate very much. But - I must ask the question "DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO?" You seem to be the main contributer in this forum. Please please please get a job. Mabey even doing numerical analysis.

Good luck with the hunt

Christian
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Old   September 28, 2001, 13:59
Default Re: Well, Even Devils Are Reading CFD Online
  #26
John C. Chien
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(1). "I have enjoyed this debate very much.", well, by the conservation law of fluid mechanics, ARE YOU READY TO PAY BACK OR DONATE SOMETHING? (2)."Please please please get a job. Mabey even doing numerical analysis." , let me know when you come across a job opening in CFD. Remember last time, we have a guy from Boeing posting messages here about the aircraft inlet? I did send him my resume, and he said he was going to let me know the result of internal discussions. So far nothing had happened. You all know that Boeing is going to lay off 30,000 workers. (3). "You seem to be the main contributer in this forum. " It is one way to prove to myself that I don't need a job, paid Internet connection or e-mail, to keep the world only one cfd online forum alive for the last three years. By the common wisdom, a newly formed company must be able to pass the first three year test in order to survive. I think, I have just done so. A company is not a single individual. So, what you are learning here is the leadership training. (4). Thank you for your visit and comment. By the way, we are here to "create jobs", and that is my job. Even if Boeing likes to hire me, I could be easily one of their 30,000 unfortunate employee. I think, more companies are shrinking and disapperaing. So, for your survival, you can spend more time reading our old messages. If you convert those messages into real money using say a conservative $50./hr, then you know that there are physically tons of gold here for free. (5). Remember the law of conservation, it governs how you read and how you will pay back, even though it is free. Do you understand it? That law also governs the live and death of a company,etc...
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Old   September 28, 2001, 16:21
Default Re: looking for a job?
  #27
christian
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This is a "Dear John" letter!

Dear John,

Thanks for that eloquent and verbose response. All you had to say is that you are looking. I can recommend two agencies in the UK who WILL find you a job (assuming you are willing to cross the pond) are you interested?

All the best

Christian
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Old   September 28, 2001, 16:53
Default Re: looking for a job?
  #28
John C. Chien
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(1). Sure. At least I have a copy of my resume ready right now. It is confidential though. Thanks.
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Old   September 28, 2001, 18:40
Default Re: Good Grief, What's the use of Internet.
  #29
John C. Chien
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(1). Good grief, what's the use of the Internet, if one has to relocate to get a job, or to fly thousands of miles to read a CFD forum message?
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Old   September 29, 2001, 15:31
Default NEED!
  #30
christian
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Dear John,

Obviously if you havent found a job through the internet then its no use is it! Working in the UK isnt so bad. Trust me (i've worked in a few countries) You might even like it! + relocating to get a job of your dreams is better then social security or grants (in my opinion anyway).

All the best mate.....

(ps do you want those url's?)
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