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-   -   Ice accretion (http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/main/4210-ice-accretion.html)

Rafael Silveira December 13, 2001 12:29

Ice accretion
 
Im a Ph.d student and Im working with ice accretion on aircraft wings. In my M.Sc course, I developed a 2D code for ice accretion. Now, in the Ph.D course, Im looking for references about 3D models to develop a new code.

Thank you...

Pao January 17, 2002 11:53

Re: Ice accretion
 
You can run Lewice 2d or 3d. I am interested in whether you have any ice shape on radome to compare your prediction. If you have any ice shape on radome, I would like to take a look too. I am working on ice shape on radome.

alireza-1369 April 2, 2012 00:29

Ice accretion process
 
Hi....
I am working on my B.Cs project,which is including ice accretion process.Please help me about how to obtain a 2d code for the ice accretion process or software like FENSAP_ICE.
I tried to find relating codes on internet(does not matter which one!)but I was not successful.
If anyone has a code,please help me....really I need help...:(
Send me your idea please...

fiddlestock July 6, 2012 12:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by alireza-1369 (Post 352599)
Hi....
I am working on my B.Cs project,which is including ice accretion process.Please help me about how to obtain a 2d code for the ice accretion process or software like FENSAP_ICE.
I tried to find relating codes on internet(does not matter which one!)but I was not successful.
If anyone has a code,please help me....really I need help...:(
Send me your idea please...

Hi there, ali.

I am also working with ice accretion right now. Are you sure that FLUENT can not be adapted in order to model ice accretion? If so, have you found some other software or code?

I really need some help here.
I am sure YOU UNDERSTAND ME. Tks!

Payam89 November 29, 2012 15:00

Icing accretion
 
I have a circle in my domain and I want that ice particles stick my circle but I don't know how should I do that:( ?

Can anybody help me?
Thank you

Umuteng December 1, 2012 13:01

Hello, ice formation is a hot topic nowadays,
You can search Myers's paper which explains messinger model,its weakness and extendend messinger model. Extendend messinger model gives fairly good solution for ice formation. All formulas you need to code are in Myers' Extenden Messinger Model paper. however to predict ice shapes some velocity field and doplet trajectory approach is needed. For velocity field you can use simple Hess-smith Panel code. Droplet trajectory calculation is a mystery for me i am still trying searching about it.

Payam89 December 1, 2012 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Umuteng (Post 395174)
Hello, ice formation is a hot topic nowadays,
You can search Myers's paper which explains messinger model,its weakness and extendend messinger model. Extendend messinger model gives fairly good solution for ice formation. All formulas you need to code are in Myers' Extenden Messinger Model paper. however to predict ice shapes some velocity field and doplet trajectory approach is needed. For velocity field you can use simple Hess-smith Panel code. Droplet trajectory calculation is a mystery for me i am still trying searching about it.

thank you so much:)

Does any panel in fluent can model ice accretion?

Umuteng December 2, 2012 07:08

i dont think fluent can model ice formation. Fluent is all about N-S equations.

Payam89 December 2, 2012 11:04

Accretion panel
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Umuteng (Post 395260)
i dont think fluent can model ice formation. Fluent is all about N-S equations.

But it has a Accretion panel once you active eurelian model...!

Umuteng December 2, 2012 17:28

i have no information about it sorry,
if you find anyway to do that with fluent please share with me...

meb December 5, 2012 15:28

RBF Morph + UDF
 
We have an active project on this topic at the University of Rome Tor Vergata.
We are currently focused on ice accretion modeling on wings as a shape updating problem; i.e. we are using literature data to drive the accretion using mesh morphing (we are exploiting specific features of RBF Morph that allow to control surface on a point by point basis).
It works quite good! And ice layer has an important effect on airfoil performances.
The next step will be the definition of an UDF for the calculation of ice accretion rate on the surface.

More than happy to share ideas on this interesting problem.

meb December 5, 2012 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Payam89 (Post 394912)
I have a circle in my domain and I want that ice particles stick my circle but I don't know how should I do that:( ?

Can anybody help me?
Thank you

Not sure, but I think that Fluent allows to evaluate your problem with particle tracking. One of the first problem I have faced a century ago! At that time (1998) the focus was about fuel droplets. Tracked in a pseudo 2D domain (built using 1-d results and geometry); not so difficult to implement if each particle is followed in a Lagrangian fashion. All the stuff coded in Fortran!

However your problem sounds more similar to snow or hail deposition.

Umuteng December 6, 2012 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by meb (Post 396011)
We have an active project on this topic at the University of Rome Tor Vergata.
We are currently focused on ice accretion modeling on wings as a shape updating problem; i.e. we are using literature data to drive the accretion using mesh morphing (we are exploiting specific features of RBF Morph that allow to control surface on a point by point basis).
It works quite good! And ice layer has an important effect on airfoil performances.
The next step will be the definition of an UDF for the calculation of ice accretion rate on the surface.

More than happy to share ideas on this interesting problem.

Hi,
Could you explain little bit more clearly what you are doing? As far as i understand you change the mesh domain with changing ice shape? But, In which way you determine water particles hit the airfoil or wing surfaces? Also why do you use mesh , to determine velocity field? İf it is why not panel code what's the advantage?
Thank you very much.

meb December 6, 2012 07:37

Just discussed the topic with the student. Let me first comment that we haven't experience in in icing modeling.
Our involvement is mainly related to the implementation of the morphing part, i.e. updating the volume mesh (in 3d for complex shapes) according to ice accretion model predictions. Currently this project is starting for the CFD solver ANSYS Fluent. And for this topic we have enough experience; and thanks to RBF Morph morphing tool we can deal with huge meshes.

We already did good test with experimental ice profiles. Even for complex shapes using RBF we are able to update the original mesh keeping an acceptable quality.

Now we are focused on the ice accretion modeling. Just started a review to understand which strategy can be adopted. Consider that in this case we are not focused to give a contribution in this topic; just fill the gap a little bit to play with a meaningful model suitable to feed the morpher.

Hear today the progress on this; just started first experiments using Eulerian multiphase model. It seems that out of the box features of Fluent can be used for this purpose.

http://www.ansys.com/staticassets/AN...-summary-3.pdf

Cheers.

Payam89 December 6, 2012 09:44

Ice deposition
 
Yes exactly!....My problem is deposition...I want that every ice particle that meet the circle stick it and deposit during the time

But I don't know which panel in fluent I should use:(


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