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leon December 23, 2001 04:22

Thermodynamic data
 
Hi, where in WWW I can find thermodynamic data (dynamic viscosity, conductivity, heat capacity) as tables or polynomial of temperature? First of all need for air. Thanks.

David December 23, 2001 08:10

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
what about perry's chemical handbook ? DC

Dean December 24, 2001 14:43

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
First of all, it would be helpful to know the range of conditions (pressure, temperature, density, humidity, contaminants) that you are interested in. Also, are you content to treat air as a uniform mixture, or are you using a multicomponent formalism?

Information on air is both voluminous and scattered all over the place. Where you look depends somewhat on the conditions of interest. Transport coefficients can be found in some editions of the Handbook of Chemistry and Physics published by CRC. Thermodynamic properties for dilute gases up to 6000 K have been collected in the JANAF tables for numerous species. These have been made available as polynomial fits by NASA, but I don't remember the URL or report number. There is a large amount of data scattered in the journals on atomic data, thermochemistry, and physical chemistry.

Happy Browsing!

JANAF tables:

Chase, et al. J. Phys. Chem. Ref. Data 3 (1974), p. 311, 1974 Supplement

Chase, eta l. J. Phys. Chem. Ref. Data 14 (1985), Supplement no. 1, parts I and II

Erwin December 26, 2001 10:27

Try these
 
The Thermal Connection has a lot of thermal data available on their site:

http://www.tak2000.com/

You can also download a trial version of a program called PhysProps from this site:

http://gpengineeringsoft.com/

Scott Whitney December 27, 2001 14:54

Re: Try these
 
I always wish this info can be compiled into one central website. If businesses and universities would stop hiding this basic data from the rest of the world, scientific advances would be drastically cheaper and come faster.

I feel if some rich person/company would buy the rights to all publications, then it will be the most significant scientific advance ever...

Maria January 2, 2002 04:54

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
Check out the "CFD Calculators" on adapco-online.

http://www.adapco-online.com/cfdcalc.html

Regards,

Maria

ken January 3, 2002 20:14

Re: Try these
 
How about

http://webbook.nist.gov/chemistry/

or

http://garfield.chem.elte.hu/Burcat/burcat.html


Maria January 4, 2002 04:24

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
There is also a "Physical Properties Online Calculator" at http://members.aol.com/engware/calc1.htm .

Kind regards,

Maria

Scott Whitney January 4, 2002 12:53

Re: Try these
 
Thanks Ken for the websites.

I've seen and used the NIST site before. It provides useful information; however it is limited to only 33 common chemicals that are easily found in any CRC or Perry's handbook.

The Burcat site was new to me. It provides information on a lot of useful chemicals. Most seem to be computer estimates of ideal gas properties. Converting the estimated ideal gas properties to real properties at high temp or high pressure can provide very inaccurate results.

Thousands of people have made actual measurements of real properties (this was the focus of a large percent of the research done in the first half of the 1900s). I'd still love to have one convenient source to find this information. I've seen a few different places to buy this information (ranging from $3,000 to $10,000 for a list of the chemicals that they have researched). Unfortunately many small universities and small companies cannot afford $10,000 for a piece of data. Instead, they buy their own high pressure, high temperature vessel and spend a few weeks calculating the data themselves. This re-research of already known data is a huge waste of the World's research time and money.

I'm still dreaming of some government buying all that proprietary information and compiling it into one free source...

Jeff Moder January 4, 2002 15:34

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
You can create property tables over user-specified temperature ranges for individual elements by going to the site

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/CEAWeb/

and then clicking on

Get Properties from NASA Coefficients (PFC)

This page is regularly updated and will allow you to create a printable version of any table created.

Jeff Moder January 4, 2002 15:50

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
I should also have added that the site

http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/CEAWeb/

(Get Properties from NASA Coefficients)

will automatically show you which compounds it has data for after you click on the individual elements. Also, air (i think always) is listed.

malcolm January 7, 2002 05:21

Re: Thermodynamic data
 
Some more useful sites:-

http://www.ppds.net/ or http://www.nel.uk/ppds (Physical Properties Data Service). Access over the web, or else buy the package for Windows, cost around 2000. It contains temperature/pressure dependent properties on around 1600 fluids. First few logins on the web are free. I've used it quite a lot, and it's very good.

Also try:-

http://tigger.uic.edu/~mansoori/Ther....Property_html

which has a list of property resources on the web.

Malcolm


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