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Old   November 19, 2002, 09:57
Default CFD "Lite"
  #1
Daniel Dekel
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Hi

Is there any CFD tool on the market which can produce some fast (days...) aerodynamic data for the aviation field? (I am talking about A/P,missles,rockets etc...)

Thanks,

Daniel
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Old   November 19, 2002, 10:27
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #2
Alton Reich
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Daniel,

The answer to your question is, "It depends." If you are trying to solve on an 8 million cell mesh using an old 486 that the accounting department finally decided to retire, the answer would be a resounding "NO!". For a reasonable problem, with a reasonable grid, and modern hardware (a few linux PCs in parallel), you can do alot.

I would recommend (being a CFDRC employee) that you take a look at our CFD-FASTRAN code on our web site <www.cfdrc.com>. If you have any questions, I can put you in touch with one of our FASTRAN gurus.

Regards, Alton Reich, P.E. Sr. Applications Engineer
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Old   November 19, 2002, 14:34
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #3
Holidays
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Most of them can. I have memories of some with CFX for aeronautical appendices on that length scale on a PC.
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Old   November 19, 2002, 15:02
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #4
Daniel dekel
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I will get to the point. in order to get fast results from a CFD package you need the assistance of some good CAD software.

CFDDesign has a solid works interface (Which we offen use in mechanical department) is there any other CFD package that is using a familiar CAD software (CATIA,UNIGRAPHICS,etc..)

Daniel
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Old   November 20, 2002, 03:05
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #5
Holidays
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Here again in CFX you have such interface for CATIA, Unigraphics, Pro-E... (I don't know them all as I only use Pro-E) which allows you to import in native format.
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Old   November 20, 2002, 08:50
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #6
joel
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Although i am not particullaly fond of the code myself, phoenics is quite good for a quick simulation. You dont have to use BFC and you can "drop" an stl into a prescribed domain size and then set mesh density and boundary conditionsm, turbulence models, relaxation etc etc, fairly easily. Sounds like it might be what you are looking for. But then it depends if you want really good data or just pretty pictures!!
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Old   November 20, 2002, 11:18
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #7
Alton Reich
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Daniel,

In all honesty most CFD packages have a front-end mesher that allows the import of a variety of CAD model geometry formats. We have meshers that support IGES, SAT and STL import (among others).

For an external aerodynamic application, you should have no trouble importing a CAD geometry, wrapping a bounding box around it, and putting either a tetrahedral mesh, or viscous-Cartesian mesh around it.

Regards, Alton
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Old   November 21, 2002, 03:17
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #8
Charles Crosby
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Dear Alton,

You are right, it SHOULDN'T be difficult to "importing a CAD geometry, wrapping a bounding box around it, and putting either a tetrahedral mesh ..." As an experienced CFD-Fastran user, may I suggest that you are being a trifle optimistic? Not that we don't get (very) good answers and insight out of Fastran, but it comes via creative multi-block structured meshing ...

To those of us in the aeronautics industry, the requirement for a "Lite CFD code" is very real. The commercial codes are loaded with features (such as combustion, free surfaces, mixing, multi-phase, heat transfer, etc.) that you don't need (and don't want to pay for) for 95% of aerodynamic design and analysis.

Charles

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Old   November 21, 2002, 04:45
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #9
Holidays
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Which is why recent codes are modular, with combustion and radiation, mfr, multiphase etc modules. Here again CFX is built like that...
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Old   November 21, 2002, 07:19
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #10
joel
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has anyone tried star-works, the star-cd solidworks thing? It looks as though it could be a quite good cfd-lite code but i have never spoken to anyone who uses it. I am a big star-cd fan but i wouldnt recomend it for a first time user wanting a quick easy answer.
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Old   November 22, 2002, 08:51
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #11
Axel Rohde
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Daniel,

I have been running EFD.Lab (SolidWorks plus FloWorks) for quite some time, and I am very happy with it. A recent 3-D wing simulation (M = 0.5, half-wing with symmetry plane) on a 1.0GHz P3 took about 36 hours to converge on a low resolution automatically refining mesh (ca. 500,000 cells).

I can't speak for CFDRC's FASTRAN, but the first thing I don't like about the company is the fact that their frequently run full page color ad in the Aerospace America Magazine (AIAA) has three spelling errors. I would assume that an ad like this would cost a few thousand dollars to run per edition, and if a company does not care about something as fundamental as spelling, I would not trust their flow solver either. I recently sent them an email about this embarrassment which was never answered. Apparently they don't even care.

If you would like a free sample run of FloWorks, send over your SolidWorks file and I will be happy to run a computation for you and send you some JPG files once I get results. The setup should only take me a few minutes. Incidentally, a perpetual license for EFD.Lab is only $16,000, which is relatively cheap considering that you have an all-in-one package (CAD & CFD). I definitely consider it a 'CFD Lite' software from a budget point of view.

Axel Rohde
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Old   December 16, 2002, 16:33
Default Re: CFD "Lite"
  #12
John Dreese
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I can't decide which is more expensive: FASTRAN's full color advertisement or the loss of business caused by their spelling errors? Can't imagine how that got all the way through editors to the printed page! Doh!
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