CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Main CFD Forum

Hypersonic CFD

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old   December 23, 2009, 18:43
Default Hypersonic CFD
  #1
New Member
 
nick p
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 7
nick.parziale@gmail.com is on a distinguished road
I am interested in using an CFD package {preferably open source} as an viscous or inviscid solver for hi enthalpy hypersonic flows where the chemistry behind the bow shock is considered. That is, not only high Mach number but the ability to simulate chemical non-equilibrium. Is there a software package available for this purpose?
nick.parziale@gmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 23, 2009, 19:15
Default
  #2
New Member
 
Andy Robertson
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 22
Rep Power: 8
AndyR is on a distinguished road
Nick,
The tricky bit is all that chemistry behind the bow shock and in the boundary layer. Generally that detailed a real-gas model will be both proprietary and here in the USA export controled (ITAR). For example the export version of GASP and the ITAR version of GASP differ in that the later version includes detailed thermo-chemical databases and real gas models which would be appropriate to your problem.

Probably any code which handles compressible real gases and chemical kinetics at the same time can solve the equations. Its just that if the thermo-chemistry model isn't right, the answers can be very very wrong.

I would focus first on trying to find open-source information which would let you model the real-gas effects before I worry about a solver. You may not be able to find anything.

Sad but true, the physical behavior of gases in this regime is controlled data.

Good Luck
- Andy
AndyR is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 23, 2009, 23:41
Default
  #3
Senior Member
 
Ahmed
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 250
Rep Power: 9
Ahmed is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyR View Post
Nick,
The tricky bit is all that chemistry behind the bow shock and in the boundary layer. Generally that detailed a real-gas model will be both proprietary and here in the USA export controled (ITAR). For example the export version of GASP and the ITAR version of GASP differ in that the later version includes detailed thermo-chemical databases and real gas models which would be appropriate to your problem.

Probably any code which handles compressible real gases and chemical kinetics at the same time can solve the equations. Its just that if the thermo-chemistry model isn't right, the answers can be very very wrong.

I would focus first on trying to find open-source information which would let you model the real-gas effects before I worry about a solver. You may not be able to find anything.

Sad but true, the physical behavior of gases in this regime is controlled data.

Good Luck
- Andy
Andy
I detect a shadow of romanticism in your reply, but rest assured that what you call, controlled information, is neither used to increase the efficiency of bread making machines nor to fight the spread of swine flu.
Good luck to all

...................................... Open Source for ever ..............................
Ahmed is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 24, 2009, 11:36
Default
  #4
New Member
 
Andy Robertson
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 22
Rep Power: 8
AndyR is on a distinguished road
You are quite right. It is simply that while such data is not trivial to determine, it is not so hard that a well directed university level effort or efforts could not duplicate it. So I imagine that any hostile entity with the capability of using such data in a hostile way has already generated what they need.

As you said, this data is not used to design toaster ovens. So the question becomes, does one impede ones own progress in this area more than on impedes the progress of those who might have hostile intent. Certainly erring on the side of caution is prudent, but it can be frustrating to deal with controlled data.

I can see controlling details on how to enrich uranium or build a thermo-nuclear weapon. But what is gained by controlling fundamental data on uranium itself?

It is a matter of degree to be sure.
-AndyR
AndyR is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   December 24, 2009, 15:48
Default
  #5
New Member
 
nick p
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 7
nick.parziale@gmail.com is on a distinguished road
I agree that issues surrounding ITAR and controlled data make for interesting conversation; however, I am still looking for constructive hints as to where to find a package that can correctly simulate hi enthalpy, high speed flows. GASP was a good start and I have put in a request there. Any other suggestions?
nick.parziale@gmail.com is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 14, 2010, 08:55
Default
  #6
mdz
New Member
 
Margarita DUFRESNE
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 13
Rep Power: 7
mdz is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by nick.parziale@gmail.com View Post
I am interested in using an CFD package {preferably open source} as an viscous or inviscid solver for hi enthalpy hypersonic flows where the chemistry behind the bow shock is considered. That is, not only high Mach number but the ability to simulate chemical non-equilibrium. Is there a software package available for this purpose?
Hi nick,

I can advise you to use FASTRAN:
*it works for high Mach number (till m=60);
*you can introduce volume chemistry (like plasma),
*you can take into account surface chemical reactions

I have used it with a space probe for planetry re-entry simulation within ESA (Europeen NASA).

KR,
mdz
mdz is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 14, 2010, 11:53
Default
  #7
Senior Member
 
Vincent RIVOLA
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: France
Posts: 277
Rep Power: 9
vinz is on a distinguished road
Hi Nick,

I don't know exactly what are your objectives, but we have an in-house developped code named MISTRAL which has been created especially for hypersonic domain, including chemistry, and non-equilibrium.
It has been validated through numerous cases, including re-entry cases on various planet.
It works on block structured hexaedral grids, and we mainly use GridPro to create them.
If you are intrested, don't hesitate to drop me an email if you want more information (vincent.rivola at rtech-engineering.com)

Regards,

Vincent
vinz is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   May 11, 2013, 07:58
Default
  #8
New Member
 
Hu Ruifeng
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 4
falltime is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinz View Post
Hi Nick,

I don't know exactly what are your objectives, but we have an in-house developped code named MISTRAL which has been created especially for hypersonic domain, including chemistry, and non-equilibrium.
It has been validated through numerous cases, including re-entry cases on various planet.
It works on block structured hexaedral grids, and we mainly use GridPro to create them.
If you are intrested, don't hesitate to drop me an email if you want more information (vincent.rivola at rtech-engineering.com)

Regards,

Vincent
Is the code MISTRAL available ?
falltime is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
CFD Wiki - We Need More Help Jonas Larsson Main CFD Forum 13 September 13, 2005 17:36
CFD for fans & blower housings David Carroll Main CFD Forum 8 August 24, 2000 17:25
PC vs. Workstation Tim Franke Main CFD Forum 5 September 29, 1999 15:01
Which is better to develop in-house CFD code or to buy a available CFD package. Tareq Al-shaalan Main CFD Forum 10 June 12, 1999 23:27
CFD code about axisymmetric bodies at hypersonic speeds Afshin Azari Main CFD Forum 5 October 26, 1998 18:09


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 19:42.