# difference between isotropic and homogeneous in turbulence

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 October 28, 2010, 21:13 difference between isotropic and homogeneous in turbulence #1 New Member   Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 12 Rep Power: 7 Some literature wrote that 'One might argue that no real turbulent flow is isotropic or even homogeneous in the large scales.' It sounds that homogeneous is stricter than isotropic! SO who can give me any hints about the difference between isotropic and homogeneous? Any comments will be appreciated.

 October 29, 2010, 01:10 #2 Member   ganesh Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 40 Rep Power: 8 Dear Dut_thinker, Isotropic turbulence demands that there is no mean shear, rotation or buoyancy effects in the flow as this can lead to anisotropy. Homogeneous turbulence is indicative of the fact that there are no mean flow gradients. In a more simpler sense, homogeneity deals with invariance in translation, isotropy deals with invariance in rotation. Take a look at MIT OCW notes on turbulence if you wish for more information. Regards, Ganesh

 October 29, 2010, 13:26 #3 Senior Member   Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 129 Rep Power: 8

 October 29, 2010, 13:48 #4 Senior Member   Join Date: Feb 2010 Posts: 145 Rep Power: 8 Thanks f-w! This link is very helpful! I'm typing the information below in case the book disappears. In homogeneous turbulence, the fluctuating velocity field u(x,t) is statistically homogeneous. It is consistent with this definition for the mean velocity gradients d(Ui)dxj to be non-zero but uniform. A good approximation to homogeneous turbulence can be achieved in wind-tunnel experiments and homogeneous turbulence is the simplest class of flows to study using DNS. A statistically homoegeous field U(x,t) is, by definition, statistically invariant under translations (i.e. shifts in the origin of the coordinate system). If the field is also statistically invariant under rotations and reflections of the coordinate system, then it is (statistically) isotropic. Reference: Turbulent Flows by S. B. Pope lvcheng likes this.

 October 30, 2010, 23:34 #5 New Member   Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 7 An isotropic turbulent flow as other members have already replied, is basically a turbulent flow where the time averaged turbulent quantities ( like u r.m.s.) have the same value at each and every location. A homogeneous flow on the other hand is one where the turbulent quantities at any given location are the same in all the directions. (ex. u r.m.s = v r.m.s.) example a concrete wall may be isotropic if the concentration of steel and cement is the same at all locations in the wall. But it is not homogeneous because at any point, there may be steel in one direction and cement in the other direction. Of course it is actually impossible to get either homogeneous or isotropic turbulence in a wind tunnel. But you can get close to it and ppl want to get close to it cause theoretically a homogeneous isotropic turbulence is very attractive. And ya it is much more impossible to get actual 100% isortopic turbulence cause turbulent flows are by definition dissipative. So the turbulent quantities ( like u r.m.s.) will decay into heat energy with time. Unless you the right amount of energy at the right time it will not be isotropic.

 January 2, 2013, 00:11 Mistake maybe?! #6 New Member   Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 1 Rep Power: 0 simulationman, Is definition of homogeneous and isotropic in your answer switched maybe? rakend reddy, hassansalem, Roark and 4 others like this.

 January 2, 2013, 12:10 #7 Senior Member   Filippo Maria Denaro Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 1,854 Rep Power: 25 just to make an example, often the turbulence in channel flow is simulated, the test is composed by two parallel plates that are replicated by periodic boundary conditions. The flow is substained by a forcing pressure gradient. This flow is simultaneously homogeneous along the two directions of periodicity and inhomogeneous in the direction normal to walls

 November 8, 2015, 00:44 Update? #8 New Member   Nick Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 2 Rep Power: 0 Homogeneous turbulence: invariance in translation Isotropic turbulence: invariance in rotation

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