CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Main CFD Forum

Natural convection at a cube

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old   June 16, 1999, 11:00
Default Natural convection at a cube
  #1
Michael
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi there,

calculating the natural convection at a heated cube in a room with cold inflow from the ceiling downwards i observed that above a certain temperature difference between cube and inflow the the 4 bouyant jets caused by the 4 side walls of the cube start to oscillate while below that temperature difference the flow is steady. At the moment I am not quite sure, whether these oscillation have a real physical reason or caused by numerics. Could someone give me a hint on that problem.

Thanks,

Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old   June 16, 1999, 13:22
Default Re: Natural convection at a cube
  #2
John C. Chien
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
(1). If you are solving the transient equations, normally it is not a problem. You can't force it to become steady state. Unless it diverges eventually. The first step is usually the mesh refinement, especially pay attention to the upper edge of the cube where a new shear layer is formed. (2). If you are solving the steady state equations, the solution oscillation simply says that you are unable to obtain a solution. ( the steady state equations do not accept oscillating solutions. ) There could be many things wrong, such as mesh size and density, treatment of boundary conditions, numerical algorithm used, turbulence models, solution controls(under-relaxation parameters), etc... In addition to the mesh refinement, you can try the first-order upwind method to find out whether you still have the same problem or not. (3). Welcome to the facinating world of CFD.
  Reply With Quote

Old   June 16, 1999, 13:29
Default Re: Natural convection at a cube
  #3
Patrick Godon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi There,

There might be a Kelvin-Helmholtz (shearing) intability developing in the region between the flow going upwards (convective currents due to the Raylegi-Taylors instability) and the ambient medium. When the temperature difference is increased the Rayleigh-Taylor instability is stronger and therefore the flow is more convective (going upwards faster -say) and therefore the shear between the convective flow and the medium is increased, leading to a stronger Kelvin-Helmholtz shearing instability. The situation is similar to that of a jet. The jet propagates fast in a medium at rest, and therefore there is a shear between them. If the velocity of the Jet is v and that of the medium is zero, the change of the velocity (in the outer envelope of the jet) occurs over a distance (say) d: the veolicty across the jet changes from v to 0 over d. The wave length of the instability (in the vertical direction) is of the order of 2*pi*d . The oscillations are wavy-like. The instability can lead to the formation of nice spiral like patterns and eventually turbulence. A good similar example is the smoke of a cigarette (even if you don't smoke).

If the instability is numerical it will probably be a two points oscillation rather than a wavy pattern.

Cheers, Patrick.
  Reply With Quote

Old   June 17, 1999, 09:52
Default Re: Natural convection at a cube
  #4
Tim
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi Patrick,

is this instability similar to that mechanism which causes the formation of a Karman vortex street above a critical Reynoldsnumber in a flow over a bluff body ?

Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old   June 17, 1999, 13:55
Default Re: Natural convection at a cube
  #5
Patrick Godon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
In both cases the formation of spiral patterns is due to the roll over of the flow induced by the differential velocity (shear) when the flow passes an obstacle (a rigid body or a perturbed interface between two flows with different velocities).
  Reply With Quote

Old   June 25, 1999, 03:34
Default Re: Natural convection at a cube
  #6
Michael
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi Patrick,

could you give me an advise, where I can find more about the phenomenon of Kelvin-Helmholtz instability ?

Michael
  Reply With Quote

Old   June 25, 1999, 10:39
Default Re: Natural convection at a cube
  #7
Patrick Godon
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
There are a few good books that you could try, some are very analytical, others are more technical.

Chandrasekhar, Hydrodynamic and Hydromagnetic instability (much of it is theory, more for advanced studies).

Drazin and Reid, I don't remember the title, but something on hydrodynamic of course. It is more technical, given some examples of the everyday-life (clouds pattern etc..).

I think the book of Lin too.

And any other book on Fluid Dynamics should have a section or a chapter on that. Sometimes it is also refered to as the shearing instability. Textbooks on terrestrial atmosphere might have a different terminology and I think they use the KH instability for a particular case in the stability of a stratified atmosphere.

In any case any good book on Hydro should be fine.

Cheers,

Patrick
  Reply With Quote

Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
natural convection problem with radiation jorien CFX 0 October 14, 2011 09:26
Natural Convection Problem - Helium marzoa STAR-CCM+ 0 April 18, 2011 14:12
How to Determine BC's for Natural Convection Ken Adams FLUENT 15 June 15, 2010 11:31
Coupled vs Seg - Natural vs. Forced Convection Alex CD-adapco 5 December 12, 2007 05:58
natural convection at high Rayleigh mauricio FLUENT 2 February 23, 2005 20:43


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 15:42.