CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Software User Forums > OpenFOAM > OpenFOAM Programming & Development

Production limiter only used for k - kOmegaSST - OpenFOAM 2.2.x

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Like Tree3Likes
  • 2 Post By Bokse
  • 1 Post By mechy

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   January 13, 2014, 13:07
Default Production limiter only used for k - kOmegaSST - OpenFOAM 2.2.x
  #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0
Bokse is on a distinguished road
I'm trying to understand which version of Menter's k-omega SST turbulence model OpenFOAM 2.2.2 is using.

Looking at the incompressible k-omega SST model, the production limiter is only added to the k equation.

Code:
// Turbulent kinetic energy equation
    tmp<fvScalarMatrix> kEqn
    (
        fvm::ddt(k_)
      + fvm::div(phi_, k_)
      - fvm::laplacian(DkEff(F1), k_)
     ==
        min(G, c1_*betaStar_*k_*omega_) // Production limiter
      - fvm::Sp(betaStar_*omega_, k_)
    );
This corresponds with Menter's suggestion from 1993 (http://turbmodels.larc.nasa.gov/sst.html). Menter suggests setting c1 to 20 but c1 is 10. This corresponds to menters suggestion from 2003. Here it's suggested to use 10 and use the production limiter for both k and omega. Looking at omega the limiter has not been used:

Code:
 
// Turbulent frequency equation
    tmp<fvScalarMatrix> omegaEqn
    (
        fvm::ddt(omega_)
      + fvm::div(phi_, omega_)
      - fvm::laplacian(DomegaEff(F1), omega_)
     ==
        gamma(F1)*S2                               // No limiter
      - fvm::Sp(beta(F1)*omega_, omega_)
      - fvm::SuSp
        (
            (F1 - scalar(1))*CDkOmega/omega_,
            omega_
        )
    );
So my question is why the production limiter is only used for k?

I found a bug report on the same topic, but I don't think it provides a answer to the question. http://openfoam.org/mantisbt/view.php?id=286

Thanks in advance.
phonak and msuaeronautics like this.
Bokse is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 21, 2014, 16:40
Default
  #2
Member
 
Eric Robertson
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
Rep Power: 14
msuaeronautics is on a distinguished road
...........

Last edited by msuaeronautics; February 16, 2014 at 21:33.
msuaeronautics is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 21, 2014, 22:19
Default
  #3
Member
 
Eric Robertson
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
Rep Power: 14
msuaeronautics is on a distinguished road
The NASA resource states that Menter required production limiters on both equations, but his actual 2003 paper only seems to call for the limiter on k. So, I suppose that the code only does what's been called for.

Last edited by msuaeronautics; February 16, 2014 at 21:33.
msuaeronautics is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 22, 2014, 01:50
Default
  #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 163
Rep Power: 14
mechy is on a distinguished road
I have compared Fluent's and OFs' kw-sst model. and found always the OF value of w is higher than Fluent' s w.(between 10 to 100 times).
but other fields (k U p) is very close to Fluent ones.
I think this thread is the reason of higher w in OF
fumiya likes this.
mechy is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 22, 2014, 11:04
Default
  #5
Member
 
Eric Robertson
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
Rep Power: 14
msuaeronautics is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by mechy View Post
I have compared Fluent's and OFs' kw-sst model. and found always the OF value of w is higher than Fluent' s w.(between 10 to 100 times).
but other fields (k U p) is very close to Fluent ones.
I think this thread is the reason of higher w in OF
Can you provide some data showing this?
msuaeronautics is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   January 30, 2014, 14:05
Default
  #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 163
Rep Power: 14
mechy is on a distinguished road
OK
I will provide some examples,as soon as possible
mechy is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   February 20, 2014, 06:33
Default
  #7
New Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 15
mjb28 is on a distinguished road
I'm also interested in why the production limiter is not used in the omega equation, or indeed if it should be.

Does anyone know where the correction referred to on the NASA website comes from? Could it be the following reference (I don't have access to this so cannot check, does anybody else?), or is it just knowledge that Chris Rumsey has? (who is curator of the NASA page).

Menter, Florian R. "Review of the shear-stress transport turbulence model experience from an industrial perspective." International Journal of Computational Fluid Dynamics 23.4 (2009): 305-316.

There is another bug report about the same issue and it seems the developer (Sergio) decided there is not a published paper to base the correction on:

http://openfoam.org/mantisbt/view.php?id=486
mjb28 is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 3, 2014, 18:11
Default
  #8
Member
 
Eric Robertson
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 95
Rep Power: 14
msuaeronautics is on a distinguished road
I have personally tried using a custom limiter on omega, which appears to keep omega in check, but introduces some non-physical elements (like hotspots in TKE). Will have to do further testing.
msuaeronautics is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 21, 2015, 09:55
Default
  #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 250
Rep Power: 12
KateEisenhower is on a distinguished road
Hello all,

the omega-equation has changed with 2.3.x:
Code:
    // Turbulent frequency equation
    tmp<fvScalarMatrix> omegaEqn
    (
        fvm::ddt(omega_)
      + fvm::div(phi_, omega_)
      - fvm::laplacian(DomegaEff(F1), omega_)
     ==
        gamma(F1)
       *min(S2, (c1_/a1_)*betaStar_*omega_*max(a1_*omega_, b1_*F23()*sqrt(S2)))
      - fvm::Sp(beta(F1)*omega_, omega_)
      - fvm::SuSp
        (
            (F1 - scalar(1))*CDkOmega/omega_,
            omega_
        )
    );
But this implementation doesn't correspond with Menter's 2003 paper. Is there an explanation for this? Or is there a more recent publication?

Best regards,

Kate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokse View Post
I'm trying to understand which version of Menter's k-omega SST turbulence model OpenFOAM 2.2.2 is using.

Looking at the incompressible k-omega SST model, the production limiter is only added to the k equation.

Code:
// Turbulent kinetic energy equation
    tmp<fvScalarMatrix> kEqn
    (
        fvm::ddt(k_)
      + fvm::div(phi_, k_)
      - fvm::laplacian(DkEff(F1), k_)
     ==
        min(G, c1_*betaStar_*k_*omega_) // Production limiter
      - fvm::Sp(betaStar_*omega_, k_)
    );
This corresponds with Menter's suggestion from 1993 (http://turbmodels.larc.nasa.gov/sst.html). Menter suggests setting c1 to 20 but c1 is 10. This corresponds to menters suggestion from 2003. Here it's suggested to use 10 and use the production limiter for both k and omega. Looking at omega the limiter has not been used:

Code:
 
// Turbulent frequency equation
    tmp<fvScalarMatrix> omegaEqn
    (
        fvm::ddt(omega_)
      + fvm::div(phi_, omega_)
      - fvm::laplacian(DomegaEff(F1), omega_)
     ==
        gamma(F1)*S2                               // No limiter
      - fvm::Sp(beta(F1)*omega_, omega_)
      - fvm::SuSp
        (
            (F1 - scalar(1))*CDkOmega/omega_,
            omega_
        )
    );
So my question is why the production limiter is only used for k?

I found a bug report on the same topic, but I don't think it provides a answer to the question. http://openfoam.org/mantisbt/view.php?id=286

Thanks in advance.
KateEisenhower is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
k-omega sst, production limiter, turbulence models

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Confusion with magSqr in turbulence model kOmegaSST - OpenFOAM 2.2.x A_Pete OpenFOAM Programming & Development 4 September 18, 2014 05:52
using production limiter for k-w SST model Madreed FLUENT 1 September 2, 2013 18:06
Same SimpleFOAM Case converges with openFOAM 2.1 but diverges with openFOAM 2.0.1 alsdia OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 3 October 22, 2012 12:25
Wrong calculation of nut in the kOmegaSST turbulence model FelixL OpenFOAM Bugs 27 March 27, 2012 10:02
kOmegaSST in openfoam 1.6 Gearb0x OpenFOAM 2 March 3, 2010 07:02


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27.