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-   -   RhoCentralFoam detail (http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/openfoam-solving/58569-rhocentralfoam-detail.html)

alberto September 5, 2008 20:59

Hello, I have a doubt about
 
Hello,

I have a doubt about rhoCentralFoam. What do instructions like the following do?

surfaceScalarField rho_pos = fvc::interpolate(rho, pos, "reconstruct(rho)");
surfaceScalarField rho_neg = fvc::interpolate(rho, neg, "reconstruct(rho)");

In particular, I don't understand the role of "pos" and "neg".

Thanks in advance for any help.

With kind regards,
Alberto

david_h September 8, 2008 11:05

Alberto, When interpolating
 
Alberto,

When interpolating (reconstructing) a variable (e.g. "rho") from cells to faces there is a value associated with each side of the face. The "interpolate" function only returns an average of these two values. When using an "upwind"-type interpolation scheme the flux, "pos" or "neg", will weight (or select) the face value to "upwind" side of the face.

For rhoCentralFoam, I think the idea is to select a suitable interpolation scheme such that
"pos" > 0 to extract to the left value and
"neg" < 0 to extract to the right value.

hope this helps
Dave

alberto September 8, 2008 12:59

Thanks David for your answer.
 
Thanks David for your answer. Let me try to see if I understand it right :-)

Let's consider this picture of a simple squared grid:

http://www.cfd-online.com/OpenFOAM_D...ges/1/9094.jpg

If I consider the face between i-1 and i, if I take the "pos", I should get the value in i, while if I take the "neg" I obtain the value in i-1.

In the same way, if I consider the face betweem i and i+1, if I take the "pos", I obtain the value in i, and if I take the "neg", the value in i+1.

Does this sound right to you?

Thanks again,
Alberto

david_h September 8, 2008 14:01

Alberto, I agree with the a
 
Alberto,

I agree with the above statements, if the "face area vectors" point outward from cell i,j.

If all the "face area vectors" are pointed either toward the right or to the top, then:

on face the between i-1 and i (i-1/2),
"pos" would return rho[i-1]
"neg" would return rho[i]
on face the between i and i+1 (i+1/2),
"pos" would return rho[i]
"neg" would return rho[i+1]

The above is for zero-order reconstruction. For "cell-based" higher order reconstruction (e.g. limited-linear), the face values would take the form:
rho_pos[i+1/2] = rho[i] + drho[i]*(x[i+1/2] - x[i])
rho_neg[i+1/2] = rho[i] + drho[i]*(x[i+1/2] - x[i+1])

where drho[i] is limited gradient of rho at cell "i"

Dave

alberto September 8, 2008 14:09

David, yes, that's what I m
 
David,

yes, that's what I meant. I didn't specify the face are vector direction.

Thanks again for your help :-)

Alberto

luca_g September 9, 2008 04:34

Alberto, the trick of pos a
 
Alberto,

the trick of pos and neg is the trick I thought about when I developed the centralFoam code, from which rhoCentralFoam has been later derived by the people at OpenCFD.

In OF, surface fields have just one single value which is related to the face, but when you apply Godunov-like scheme you actually want to compute the flux through a face solving (maybe approxiamtely) the Riemann problem defined by the TWO different states of the fluid on the opposite sides of each face.

Thus, for each unknown (say p, U and T), you need to evaluate two surface fields with the values of the variable on the two sides of the face.

The fvc::interpolate function normally use the sign of the velocity flux to "decide" how to upwind the cell values in order to interpolate a face value. So the idea was to "fool" the interpolation routine calling it twice: once with a "positive" flux (e.g. +1) and one with a "negative" flux (e.g. -1). Depending on the selected interpolation scheme, as explained by David, you will get two (most likely) different estimates of the face values from which the Godunov-like scheme (in this case a central-upwind scheme) can be applied.

The nice (and somewhat unusual) thing in OF is that given an internal face it always has an "owner" and a "neighbour": in OF notation the flux is positive if the flow is going through the face from the owner cell to the neighbour cell, and negative otherwise (i.e. the face normal is positive from owner to neighbour).
Thus, because of the unstructured grid used in OF you cannot easily think interms of i-1,j and i,j but you better think in terms of owner/neighbour relation.

So you actually solve a Riemann problem at each face between an "owner-side" and a "neighbour-side" with the convention that the flux will be positive in the "owner-to-neighbour" direction. It doesn't matter if (in a more conventional way of thinking) face normals are outward or inward with respect to any given cell. At the end, everything will be consistent.

Kind regards,

Luca

luca September 9, 2008 05:18

Hi Luca, take a look to the
 
Hi Luca,

take a look to the original paper of Kurganov about Riemann solver free approach implemented in the rhoCentralFoam solver: may be it can help you to better understand the algorithm

http://www.cscamm.umd.edu/centpack/publications/files/KT_semi-discrete.JCP00-cen tpack.pdf

Regards

Luca

luca_g September 9, 2008 07:49

Dear Luca, Thank you for yo
 
Dear Luca,

Thank you for your hint.
I don't want to appear arrogant but I'm the one who wrote the (original) centralFoam code, so I know about Kurganov et al. Riemann free approach.
Still, it is a Godunov-like scheme and it is quite close to an approximate Riemann-solver based solver. In fact you could easily use the most of centralFoam substituting KT scheme with Roe's one; including the trick with pos and neg "fictitious fluxes".

In the previous explanation I used the "Riemann problem" concept because it's the most familiar approach.

If you are interest:
http://www.cfd-online.com/cgi-bin/Op...1867#POST11867

Kind regards,

Luca

luca September 9, 2008 08:36

Dear Luca, sorry about it.
 
Dear Luca,

sorry about it. I've typed the wrong name starting the thread :-) The suggestion was for Alberto and the paper could be useful anyway.


Luca

alberto September 9, 2008 11:29

Thanks all a lot for the compl
 
Thanks all a lot for the complete information!

Regards,
Alberto

mihir1310 January 13, 2010 21:01

X-posted from other thread
 
Im trying to solve a free-jet problem by rhoCentralFoam [OF 1.5]. My domain represents a close chamber in which the jet enters at Supersonic conditions.
My code crashes due to a FPE , I am getting -ve pressure & density at the outlet .



this is obviously due to solving the h equation. I do not understand what is causing this error . ill post my BC;s & the thermoPhysicalProperties directory .

Code:

dimensions      [1 -1 -2 0 0 0 0];

internalField  uniform 42000;

boundaryField
{
    wall
    {
        type            slip;
    }
    axis
    {
        type            empty;
    }
    outlet
    {
        type            nonReflective;
        refValue        uniform 6600;
        gamma          1.4;
        phi            phi;
        psi            psi;
        valueFraction  uniform 0.2;
        refGradient    uniform 0.2;
        value          uniform 6600;
    }
    inlet
    {
        type            totalPressure;
        U              U;
        phi            phi;
        rho            none;
        psi            none;
        gamma          1.4;
        p0              uniform 101325;
        value          uniform 101325;
    }
    frontAndBackPlanes
    {
        type            empty;
    }
    front
    {
        type            wedge;
    }
    back
    {
        type            wedge;
    }
}

U
Code:

dimensions      [0 1 -1 0 0 0 0];

internalField  uniform (260.39 0 0);

boundaryField
{
    wall
    {
        type            slip;
    }
    axis
    {
        type            empty;
    }
    outlet
    {
        type            zeroGradient;
    }
    inlet
    {
        type            fixedValue;
        value          uniform (315 0 0);
    }
    frontAndBackPlanes
    {
        type            empty;
    }
    front
    {
        type            wedge;
    }
    back
    {
        type            wedge;
    }
}

Code:

thermoType      hThermo<pureMixture<sutherlandTransport<specieThermo<hConstThermo<perfectGas>>>>>;

mixture        perfectGas 1 28.9 1004.3 200.0 1.458e-6 110.4;

rhoMin          rhoMin    [1 -3 0 0 0]    0.001;


mihir1310 January 14, 2010 09:49

I also has a question about the accuracy of the solver as claimed in the paper :Implementation of semi-discrete, non-staggered central schemes in a colocated, polyhedral, finite volume framework, for high-speed viscous flows by Christopher J. Greenshields1,2,∗,, Henry G. Weller2, Luca Gasparini3 and Jason M. Reese1

In the solution of the Ladenburg Free Jet problem , this article claims accurac in successful reproduction of experimental results by computational method. The following picture shows the matching of the shock locations & profiles.
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2805/laden.png

However the converged results obtained from the tutorial LadenburgPsi60 of rhoCentralFoam show shock profile slightly different from the above image . The picture in the article shows a prominent "Mach Disc" , while the same in the tutorial appears smeared .
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/1...denburgjpg.jpg

Can you explain to me the difference in the two sets of results ? Is the difference due to accuracy or simply a matter of interpretation ?

mihir1310 January 18, 2010 11:02

Could anyone please help me with this ? I can present some more details if necessary

Thank You

schwermetall December 18, 2011 10:05

Central Scheme in rhoCentralFoam VS fvSchemes
 
Hi all,
I'm not too experienced with CFD so I apologize for stupid questions in the first place ;-).

I'm wondering about a very general thing concerning rhoCentralFoam. It is a central Scheme by construction right?
I looked through "Implementation of semi-discrete, non-staggered central schemes in a colocated, [...] finite volume framework [...]" by Greenshields, Gasparini et. Al. There is the following explanation:
"In the KT [Kurganov / Tadmor] method, the f + and f − contributions are weighted equally so that the weighting coefficient is alpha=0.5, hence its description as a central scheme."
So my question is: Why is it possible, to specify an upwind div scheme or interpolation Scheme for rhoCentral Foam? Respectively, Do I change the idea of rhoCentralFoam by using an upwind scheme together with a Tadmor flux Scheme?

The reason for the question is simply, that I have great difficulties to distinguish between all the different upwind / central Scheme possibilities .

Thanks a lot, regards

schwermetall December 21, 2011 05:26

No ideas ?

anishtain4 April 22, 2012 03:51

I ran the case forward step from the rhoCentralFoam tutorials, but when I tried to plot the residuals, interestingly I saw that all of the residuals are zero, any idea?

mksingh April 23, 2012 04:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by luca (Post 197410)
Hi Luca,

take a look to the original paper of Kurganov about Riemann solver free approach implemented in the rhoCentralFoam solver: may be it can help you to better understand the algorithm

http://www.cscamm.umd.edu/centpack/publications/files/KT_semi-discrete.JCP00-cen tpack.pdf

Regards

Luca

The link given in this thread does not work
http://www.cfd-online.com/cgi-bin/Op...1867#POST11867
Is there a new link?
With best regards.
M K

anishtain4 April 23, 2012 15:26

I did download it a few days ago, that is fine

mksingh April 23, 2012 17:36

I mean this thread:
http://www.cfd-online.com/cgi-bin/Op...1867#POST11867
I am able to download the pdf but not able to see the above thread (see #8)

anishtain4 April 27, 2012 13:28

You are right, that is not displaying any more


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