
[Sponsors] 
September 26, 2006, 06:30 
The les Smagorinsky Model inco

#1 
Guest
Posts: n/a

The les Smagorinsky Model incorporated in OpenFOAM, for compressible flows, add some more terms, which i have not been able to understand, can anyone give me a link to what method has been followed for compressible LES Smagorinsky Model?


October 9, 2006, 00:43 
The Smagorinsky model coded is

#2 
Guest
Posts: n/a

The Smagorinsky model coded is as follows
volTensorField D = symm(gradU); volScalarField a = ce_/delta(); volScalarField b = (2.0/3.0)*tr(D); volScalarField c = 2*ck_*delta()*(dev(D) && D); k_ = sqr((2*b + sqrt(sqr(b) +4*a*c))/(2*a)); muSgs_ = ck_*rho()*delta()*sqrt(k_); while the model commonly documented is much simpler. This looks like a solution of a quadratic equation, but i am still in search of a link for interpreting the above model. the incompressible Smagorinsly model is simply nuSgs_ = ck_*delta()*sqrt(k(gradU)); nuSgs_.correctBoundaryConditions(); i would be very thankful if someone could point out a link to the compressible model. 

June 24, 2008, 10:13 
Is there any reference paper f

#3 
Senior Member
Nishant
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Glasgow, UK
Posts: 165
Rep Power: 8 
Is there any reference paper for the implementation of compressible smagorinsky model???
if there is any link either in the forum please provide it to me. cheers! Nishant
__________________
Thanks and regards, Nishant 

June 24, 2008, 12:02 
Hi
The following title sug

#4 
Senior Member
Niels Gjoel Jacobsen
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Deltares, Delft, The Netherlands
Posts: 1,660
Rep Power: 25 
Hi
The following title suggest that it might be interesting. Haven't read it myself: C. Fureby On SubGrid Scale Modeling in Large Eddy Simulations of Compressible Fluid Flow Phys. Fluids, 8, 1301, 1996. Best regards, Niels
__________________
Please note that I do not use the Friendfeature, so do not be offended, if I do not accept a request. 

July 21, 2010, 02:51 

#5  
Senior Member
Jie
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 123
Rep Power: 8 
Quote:
Have you got the reference for the dynSmagorinsky model used in OpenFOAM by any chance? I am stuck at the same place trying to understand it as it is different from the original dynamic Smagoribsky from Lilly 1992. Thanks 

December 1, 2010, 12:42 

#6 
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 8 
Hello everybody,
I have another question regarding the compressible Smagorinsky model. Why does the model ask for the file k within start directory? I use OpenFOAM1.6 with rhoPisoFoam. I thought, Smagorinsky works without it. The incompressible model does not ask. Best regards, Georg 

December 3, 2010, 15:05 

#7 
Senior Member
Francois
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 107
Rep Power: 7 
Hello Georg,
Looking at the code, I guess that the compressible version of the Smagorinsky model requests the "k" file through inheritance.. The Smagorinsky LES model is a child of the general base class GenEddyVisc. In the GenEddyVisc.C file you can see: Code:
00073 k_ 00074 ( 00075 IOobject 00076 ( 00077 "k", 00078 runTime_.timeName(), 00079 mesh_, 00080 IOobject::MUST_READ, 00081 IOobject::AUTO_WRITE 00082 ), 00083 mesh_ 00084 ), I guess this is inconsistent with the incompressible implementation of the turbulent models, where the request for "k" is programmed in the turbulence model itself, meaning that it will not be used/asked for if not needed by the model. Consequently, the incompressible Smagorinsky model does not complaining about "k" not being present in the start directory.. I don't know why it was implemented that way, but I guess you could ask the developers themselves via the openfoam/bugs site. I would be curious to know what the reason is. Kind regards, Francois. 

December 8, 2010, 06:37 

#8 
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 8 
Hi Francois,
thank you for your quick answer. I have reported that issue to OpenCFD. I will keep you informed. Kind regards, Georg 

January 11, 2011, 05:20 

#9 
New Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 17
Rep Power: 8 
Hello Francois,
me again. It seems, that there was no reason for the way the compressible model was implemented. The code was reorganized and will be part of the next release. Regards, Georg 

January 11, 2011, 09:18 

#10 
Senior Member
Francois
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 107
Rep Power: 7 
Allright!
Good work, and thanks for the update. Kind regards, Francois. 

July 19, 2011, 11:50 

#11 
Member
Dejan Morar
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 78
Rep Power: 8 
Hi,
there is no new implementation of compressible Smagorinsky model in OF 2.0! Is there any other reference than Fureby because he doesn't use this kind of modelling? Where I can find more about the version of compressible Smagorinsky, which is implemented in OF? Why a separate calculation of k will be used? Thx Dejan 

January 25, 2012, 13:07 

#12 
Member
Gregor Olenik
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: http://greole.github.io/
Posts: 80
Rep Power: 8 
that was a bug see http://www.openfoam.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=389


January 25, 2012, 13:27 

#13 
Member
Dejan Morar
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 78
Rep Power: 8 
Thanks Gregor!
This question was actually posed by my friend because he didn't have profile at that time. I can't wait to see his face when he find out that this was a bug all the time 

January 25, 2012, 13:35 

#14 
Member
Gregor Olenik
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: http://greole.github.io/
Posts: 80
Rep Power: 8 
And furthermore you can actually derive the quadratic k equation from the Fureby1996 paper. I just did't see how in the beginning.


July 11, 2012, 07:57 

#15 
Member
Gregor Olenik
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: http://greole.github.io/
Posts: 80
Rep Power: 8 
As demanded:
To derive the quadratic k equation you take B*D = c_B*rho*k^(3/2)*delta^(1) (1 equilibrium assumption) and plug in B = 2/3 rho*k*I2*mu_t*D (2 subgrid scale stress tensor ) so you get:  c_B*rho*k^(3/2)*Delta^(1) = 2/3 rho*k*trace(D)2*mu_t*D^2 (3) with mu_t = c_k*Delta*k^(1/2) (4 Smagorinsky model) you finally get the quadratic k equation used in OpenFOAM:  c_B*rho*k^(3/2)*Delta^(1) = 2/3 rho*k*trace(D)2*c_k*Delta*k^(1/2)*D^2 (5) So the basic difference between the Smagorinsky model in the compressible and incompressible case is (at least how it is implemented in OpenFOAM), whether you can neglect the rho*k*trace(D) term or not. D = Strain rate tensor Last edited by gregor; July 11, 2012 at 07:57. Reason: typo 

October 22, 2012, 11:53 

#16 
Senior Member
n/a
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Rep Power: 8 
Gregor,
If I may ask this question: how is D is the strain rate tensor? volTensorField D = symm(gradU); Sij = 0.5(dUi/dxj + dUj/dxi) and it is clearly a symmetric tensor But how is D= symm(fvc::grad(U)) = Sij??? Is the assumption that the crossstream and spanwise derivatives are minute compared to the wall normal derivates? Cheers, Deji 

October 22, 2012, 12:05 

#17 
Senior Member
n/a
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Rep Power: 8 
D is actually the deformation rate tensor.


October 22, 2012, 12:10 

#18 
Senior Member
n/a
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 198
Rep Power: 8 
I think I've figured this out...


January 23, 2013, 19:30 

#19  
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 168
Rep Power: 5 
Quote:
Can I ask you a question about Eq. (5)? Why is Eq. (5) a the quadratic k equation ? I know this is a simple question. I checked the source code and but that OPenfoam did solve it like a quadratic equation. Any suggestions are really appreciated. best regards, H 

January 24, 2013, 08:51 

#20 
Member
Gregor Olenik
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: http://greole.github.io/
Posts: 80
Rep Power: 8 
Hi H
take Eq. 5 and divide it by k^(1/2) and you get:  c_B*rho*k*Delta^(1) = 2/3 rho*k^(1/2)*trace(D)2*c_k*Delta*D^2 now substitute k by k=K^2, this yields  c_B*rho*K^2*Delta^(1) = 2/3 rho*K*trace(D)2*c_k*Delta*D^2 solve for K and resubstitute K=sqrt(k). That is at least my opinion of whats happening 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
LESSmagorinsky model  CFDUSERIN  CFX  5  August 28, 2008 00:43 
Smagorinsky model  sylvain91  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  0  June 22, 2006 06:29 
Smagorinsky Subgrid Model  Craig Johansen  CFX  1  October 13, 2004 03:10 
Smagorinsky closure model for LES  Jimmy  FLUENT  0  December 18, 2002 05:33 
Dynamic Smagorinsky model  Tim  Main CFD Forum  7  May 29, 2002 07:37 