
[Sponsors] 
June 4, 2010, 09:09 
Convectiondiffusion in 1D : wrong solution for a large Delta x

#1 
Senior Member
Emanuele
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
Rep Power: 8 
Hi, i wrote a solver to solve a convectiondiffusion equation on a 1D mesh
fvScalarMatrix noUEqn ( fvm::div(v,noU) == fvm::laplacian(d1,noU) ); where v is a constant value surfaceScalarField (value is 4), d1 is a constant value surfaceScalarField (value is 0.1) and noU is a volScalarField Mesh: 1 m x 1 m x 1m [10 x 1 x 1] > Delta x = 0.1 Boundary condition : inlet: noU=0 outlet: noU=1 Using UPWIND scheme on div(v,noU) i obtain a wrong noU field : all values are negative (the only positive value remains at the outlet like boundary condition says)!! If i reduce Delta x to 0.01 i obtain a positive noU field according to analitical solution. I printed noUEqn.H() and noUEqn.A() and they are like the values manually computed with a simple spreadsheet. How can i fix it?? Why at lower resolution it gives me negative values? Thanks in advance Regards Emanuele Last edited by nuovodna; June 7, 2010 at 09:42. 

June 7, 2010, 09:45 

#2 
Senior Member
Emanuele
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
Rep Power: 8 
If i use UPWIND scheme on div, I have this noU cell values:
Code:
3.41333e07 2.38933e06 1.26293e05 6.38293e05 0.000319829 0.00159983 0.00799983 0.0399998 0.2 1 

June 18, 2010, 05:47 

#3 
Senior Member
Emanuele
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
Rep Power: 8 
I invert the matrix manually and it returns the same negative value. Perhaps, the effect of boundary is dominant


July 1, 2010, 13:25 

#4 
Senior Member
Santiago Marquez Damian
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Santa Fe, Argentina
Posts: 420
Rep Power: 15 
Emanuele: are you inverting the noUEqn matrix
Code:
fvScalarMatrix noUEqn ( fvm::div(v,noU) == fvm::laplacian(d1,noU) ); Regards.
__________________
Santiago MÁRQUEZ DAMIÁN, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Research Center for Computational Mechanics (CIMEC)  CONICET/FICHUNL T.E.: 543424511594 Ext. 1005 Güemes 3450  (3000) Santa Fe Santa Fe  Argentina http://www.cimec.org.ar 

July 2, 2010, 05:45 

#5 
Senior Member
Emanuele
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
Rep Power: 8 
I printed the noU values in this way
fvScalarMatrix noUEqn ( fvm::div(v,noU) == fvm::laplacian(d1,noU) ); solve(noUEqn); OFstream outCellValues("outCellValues.dat"); forAll(mesh.cells(), celli) { outCellValues << mesh.C()[celli].component(0) << " " << noU[celli] << endl; } 

July 2, 2010, 11:48 
Typical behaviour I guess

#6 
Senior Member

I believe you are getting the typical behaviour. If DeltaX is too high and using upwind you will get to much numerical dispersion, that disapear if you define a lower value of deltaX. Consult Versteeg for more information.
Regards, Antonio Martins 

October 2, 2010, 18:47 

#7 
Senior Member
Santiago Marquez Damian
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Santa Fe, Argentina
Posts: 420
Rep Power: 15 
Emanuele, I had forgotten this thread until a few days ago when I started to have the same issues with a similar problem, I reported them into the FOAM bug tracker and in the bug section of this forum:
Wrong fvm::div assembling problems seems to be related to the way of upwind scheme is implemented in FOAM. Could post some info related to your problem, including books and papers where it is analyzed? Regards.
__________________
Santiago MÁRQUEZ DAMIÁN, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Research Center for Computational Mechanics (CIMEC)  CONICET/FICHUNL T.E.: 543424511594 Ext. 1005 Güemes 3450  (3000) Santa Fe Santa Fe  Argentina http://www.cimec.org.ar 

October 2, 2010, 19:56 

#8 
Member
Ovie Doro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 99
Rep Power: 8 
Hi,
I know this isnt related exactly to the problem in this thread, but bears some similarities nonetheless. My question is: has anyone tried to implement InterFOAM in 1D. I am trying to simulate Stefan problems using interFoam and apparently it looks like the solution in 1D makes no sense while 2D formulation appears to influence the results somewhat due to the additional boundary conditions. If anyone has any ideas it would be nice. Thanks. 

October 2, 2010, 23:07 

#9 
Senior Member
Santiago Marquez Damian
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Santa Fe, Argentina
Posts: 420
Rep Power: 15 
Ovie, I've tried an 1D example of interFoam in order to study how compressive term works. It's a very interesting case because, momentum equation vanishes and only nonlinear equation for phase is solved really. It allowed me to compare interFoam results with simple Matlab/Octave code. I'll be working on that again next weeks.
Maybe you can start a new thread about this topic to share some results. Regards.
__________________
Santiago MÁRQUEZ DAMIÁN, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Research Center for Computational Mechanics (CIMEC)  CONICET/FICHUNL T.E.: 543424511594 Ext. 1005 Güemes 3450  (3000) Santa Fe Santa Fe  Argentina http://www.cimec.org.ar 

October 2, 2010, 23:40 

#10 
Member
Ovie Doro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 99
Rep Power: 8 
Thanks Santiago,
As it is, I wasnt sure if my point had any merit to it thats why I was reluctant to start a new thread. But on your suggestion, I might just consider doing that to see if others with similar challenges can report their findings. Thanks for your response all the same. 

October 3, 2010, 00:59 

#11  
Member
Ovie Doro
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 99
Rep Power: 8 
Quote:
But I am curious. How did you formulate the problem? I mean the mesh and what boundary conditions did you impose on patches? I have tried a simple approach of declaring only inlet and outlet patches for a 1D rectangular block but when I run the computation, it is just completely useless results I get. So I would really like to see how you managed to pull this off... Thanks 

October 4, 2010, 05:53 
one dimensional convectiondiffusion results

#12 
Senior Member
Emanuele
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
Rep Power: 8 
Hi Santiago, these are my results.
Equation: fvm::div(v,U) == fvm::laplacian(d,U) with d= 0.001 v = 1 U(0) = 0 U(1) = 1 Four schemes combination on div : ) Gauss linear on div + Gauss linear corrected on laplacian (in figure as CDS) ) Gauss upwind on div + Gauss linear corrected on laplacian (UPWIND) ) Gauss linearUpwind cellMDLimited Gauss linear 1 on div + Gauss linear corrected on laplacian (LIMITERS) ) Gauss limitedLinear 1 on div + Gauss linear corrected on laplacian (limitedLinear) Classified according to Peclet number: Pe = v * Delta x / d Regards Emanuele Last edited by nuovodna; October 4, 2010 at 06:42. Reason: errors on schemes definition 

October 4, 2010, 07:29 
What is the value of the time increment

#13 
Senior Member

Hi,
What is the value of the value increment? According to the figures, it looks you have a larger courant than allowed by stability requirements. Also, try to use more precise interpolation methods, such as gamma, minmod, or SFCD. Although non limited, they are much more precise than upwind... Also, more information on this problem can be found in the book of Malaskera. Regards, António Martins 

October 4, 2010, 07:58 

#14 
Senior Member
Santiago Marquez Damian
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Santa Fe, Argentina
Posts: 420
Rep Power: 15 
Emanuele. your results seems as I expected, particularly for Central Difference and Upwind. In CD the oscillations are normal due large Pe, this scheme is unstable for Pe>1. With respect of upwind it should be stable in all range of Pe numbers, but in FOAM it is not the case due the form of divergence assembling (check the link I posted a few days ago). Respect of limited schemes I would have expected a bounded behavior but it seem to have the same problems.
Could you post a paper o book in which this problem is shown? I'm searching too, but the only references I've got are for FEM. Regards.
__________________
Santiago MÁRQUEZ DAMIÁN, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Research Center for Computational Mechanics (CIMEC)  CONICET/FICHUNL T.E.: 543424511594 Ext. 1005 Güemes 3450  (3000) Santa Fe Santa Fe  Argentina http://www.cimec.org.ar 

October 4, 2010, 08:18 
expected results

#15 
Senior Member
Emanuele
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 110
Rep Power: 8 
Hi Santiago, i read your bug report and my results correspond to your alert on fvm::div assembling. This problem is described here
Finite Volume Method for ConvectionDiffusion Problems and in famous book like Peric or Veersteg 

October 20, 2010, 13:36 

#16 
Senior Member
Santiago Marquez Damian
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Santa Fe, Santa Fe, Argentina
Posts: 420
Rep Power: 15 
Emanuele, Professor Tung gives the right answer in slide 47 as you said, the explanation is taken from Versteeg.
Thx.
__________________
Santiago MÁRQUEZ DAMIÁN, Ph.D. Postdoctoral Fellow Research Center for Computational Mechanics (CIMEC)  CONICET/FICHUNL T.E.: 543424511594 Ext. 1005 Güemes 3450  (3000) Santa Fe Santa Fe  Argentina http://www.cimec.org.ar 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Solution in the Large for Nonlinear Hyperbolic  CFD_student  Main CFD Forum  0  March 19, 2007 13:04 
Analytical Solution of 1D Convection Diffusion Eq.  Suman Kumar  Main CFD Forum  7  July 15, 2003 14:05 
CFL Condition  Matt Umbel  Main CFD Forum  14  January 12, 2001 15:34 
Numerical diffusion error  Z.Zeng  Main CFD Forum  8  October 22, 1999 09:06 
Wall functions  Abhijit Tilak  Main CFD Forum  6  February 5, 1999 02:16 