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-   -   grid length scale in DES Spalart-Allmaras - definition of dTilda (http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/openfoam/84568-grid-length-scale-des-spalart-allmaras-definition-dtilda.html)

fsaltara February 2, 2011 17:14

grid length scale in DES Spalart-Allmaras - definition of dTilda
 
Does someone know how is calculate the grid length scale used in dTilda? In the original model, Spalart proposed to use the maximum length of the cell, but in the lesdelta options I was unable to find something similar. I am using the cube root delta.

0.1 watts May 16, 2012 18:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by fsaltara (Post 293339)
Does someone know how is calculate the grid length scale used in dTilda? In the original model, Spalart proposed to use the maximum length of the cell, but in the lesdelta options I was unable to find something similar. I am using the cube root delta.

Looking through the src it seems that the user is restricted to the usual LESDelta options.

One of the other options is maxDeltaxyz: 'Maximum of x, y and z; for structured hex cells only'.

Is this equivalent to the DES Delta parameter, and if so does it work with snappyHexMesh grids?

vkrastev May 17, 2012 04:53

Until OF-2.1.0, the Spalart-Allmaras DES delta definition (max DeltaX, DeltaY, DeltaZ) was not available, so the only reasonable choice appeared to be the classical cubic root Delta definition (which, however, does not return the expected behavior in the RANS zone of the original S-A DES model). Now it seems that someone has detected (at last...) this deficiency, so the maxDeltaxyz is the consistent choice for the DES model in its original form (although "consistent" does not mean "best", especially in the LES region of the flow with highly anisotropic or unstructured grids)

Regards

V.

0.1 watts May 17, 2012 06:35

Thanks for your advice, I'll try both with DDES and see what the differences are.

Anne Lincke July 17, 2012 05:07

Dear all,

I have a question concerning the computation of (max DeltaX, DeltaY, DeltaZ) in
src/turbulenceModels/LES/LESdeltas/maxDeltaxyz.

Here are some lines of the code

HTML Code:


 forAll(cells,cellI)
    {
        scalar deltaMaxTmp = 0.0;
        const labelList& cFaces = mesh().cells()[cellI];
        const point& centrevector = mesh().cellCentres()[cellI];

        forAll(cFaces, cFaceI)
        {
            label faceI = cFaces[cFaceI];
            const point& facevector = mesh().faceCentres()[faceI];
            scalar tmp = mag(facevector - centrevector);
            if (tmp > deltaMaxTmp)
            {
                deltaMaxTmp = tmp;
            }
        }
        hmax()[cellI] = deltaCoeff_*deltaMaxTmp;
    }

To my understanding, the method takes the maximum from faceCentre to cellCentre, for each cell.
But in order to obtain the desired (max DeltaX, DeltaY, DeltaZ), isn't it necessary to multiply the obtained value with a factor 2?
Is it necessary to set deltaCoeff to 2 in constant/LESProperties? As far as I can see the default value is 1.

I would appreciate any answers.

Kind Regards
Anne

David* July 24, 2012 05:07

Hi Anne,
if you are using Hexamesh, you have to set deltaCoeff to 2 to obtain the correct value. As far as I understand, it is implemented in the present way to account for Polymeshes. There is a bug report (ID 0000474) at http://www.openfoam.org/bugs/ including this topic.
Regards,
David

Anne Lincke July 25, 2012 10:23

Hey David,

thank you for this hint. I found this thread a while ago, but could not find it anymore.

Kind Regards
Anne

Anne Lincke August 1, 2012 05:30

Hello,

I have one small further question.

Citation from the Bug report site

Quote:

In case of polyhedral meshes it is easier to calculate the distance between the face centres and the cell centre. In the particular case of hexa you can just use the coeff for maxDeltaxyz to get the max(h) from face to face on the cell:

maxhxhyhzDeltaCoeffs
{
deltaCoeff 2;
}

The same with IDDESDeltaCoeffs, you can use deltaCoeff_

IDDESDeltaCoeffs
{
deltaCoeff 1;
cw 0.15;
}

Doesn't it has to be
Quote:

IDDESDeltaCoeffs
{
deltaCoeff 2;
cw 0.15;
}
when using hex meshes?

Kind Regards
Anne

MaryBau May 27, 2013 16:28

Hi everyone;

Does anyone know the answer to Ann's previous question about how to define deltaCoeff for hex meshes?

I believe that when using DES or DDES:

maxDeltaxyzCoeffs
{
deltaCoeff 2;
}

but for IDDES the deltaCoeff should be defined as 1. So:

IDDESDeltaCoeffs
{
deltaCoeff 1;
cw 0.15;
}

Is that correct?

Thanks for your help.

Andy_bm December 11, 2014 05:48

This question is actual for me. I use LES turbulence model and snappyhexmesh. What is the delta should I choose 1 or 2? Because there is the problem of the flow past cylinder. If Deltacoeffs = 1 then Cd = 0.33, if deltaCoeffs = 2 then Cd = 1.2 as in the experiment. But I have coarse mesh y+ ~ 40, V=72m\s

Thanks.


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