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Old   October 17, 2011, 00:54
Default openFOAM in fusion plasma
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Dinesh Nath
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Hello,
I am curious about that is it possible to use OpenFOAM in fusion plasma? As fusion plasma has some different properties than cold plasma. It is collisionless and quasineutral. But under certian approximations it can be treated as fluid. So is it possible to develop code in OpenFOAM for simulation of such plasma in toroidal geometry?

thank you
Regards

Last edited by dinesh2n@gmail.com; October 17, 2011 at 03:15.
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Old   October 17, 2011, 07:19
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Bernhard Linseisen
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Hi Dinesh,

although I have never done anything like that, I would be carefully optimistic about the possibilities of doing something like that.
I guess the question is more, how far you are willing to involve yourself into developing the solver/code.
I think if you know the basic models for it, it should be possible to write something like that, (ab)using snippets of other solvers...

I suggest you try to see if the functions given in the programmers' guide are what you need.

For the rest: Good luck! ;-)
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Old   October 17, 2011, 10:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Linse View Post

I guess the question is more, how far you are willing to involve yourself into developing the solver/code.
I suggest you try to see if the functions given in the programmers' guide are what you need.
I am doing PhD in Tokamak fusion plasma. I have seen that OF has been used for plasma Ark and liquid metal flows in tokamak Blankets. Now, if I think to use OF in tokamak plasma, and as you also pointed out the possibility as yes, I wish not to get lost in between.
Earlier I have worked on OF in a convection problem. it seems me that programmer's guide function would support the work, because the required function have been used in liquid metal flows, where MHD equations are solved. After all tokamk plasma also uses modified MHD equations. So my guess OF could be used for the same.
I request you please say something more on this. so that I could get better confirmation and start working on it. Your comments are welcome.

Thank you


thank you
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Old   October 17, 2011, 10:29
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Elvis
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Hi,

http://web.student.chalmers.se/group...SlidesOFW5.pdf Simulation of magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) flows: electric potential formulation

deals with International Thermonuclear Exerimental Reactor
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Old   October 17, 2011, 10:33
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Bernhard Linseisen
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Well, unfortunately I can answer only as far as my knowledge goes. As I am far away from doing MHD or Quantum Fluids or things like that, I cannot comment any further...
Good luck anyway!
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Old   October 17, 2011, 13:07
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Dinesh Nath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis View Post
Hi,

http://web.student.chalmers.se/group...SlidesOFW5.pdf Simulation of magneto-hydrodynamic (MHD) flows: electric potential formulation

deals with International Thermonuclear Exerimental Reactor

Thank you to both elvis and Linse , for the quick helpful replies.
That link was useful. But sir, it deals with the liquid metals.
The MHD theory of liquid metals (used as coolant and flows outside of the tokamak blanket) is different in many respects from the plasma inside the tokamak. Fusion plasmas are high temperature plasmas (~10^8 degree C). Although the MHD equations to be solved for tokamak plasmas are not very different than those are used in MHD of liquid metals.
this wiki link Would show the Eqns
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamics

Since nobody had applied so it in OF for fusion plasma that is why doubt came in my mind.
Still I some more information is requested
1) Would the use of OpemFOAM in liquid metals and plasma be similar ?
1) Is it possible to use some inbuilt module or one needs it to develope in OF ?

Thank you to both of you

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Old   October 18, 2011, 08:08
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Dear Dimish,

http://www.extend-project.de/user-gr...ewgroup/groups
=>Category:Special Interest Groups Name: MHD flows
Description: Developing MHD compressible flow solver...
Created:
Tuesday, 29 June 2010
Creator:Carlos Xisto
Group Forum: MHD flows Group Forum I do not know how active this group is!

I am no OF expert, but there are examples of OF with other software Cantera

Last edited by elvis; October 18, 2011 at 08:28.
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Old   October 18, 2011, 10:48
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Dinesh Nath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis View Post
Tuesday, 29 June 2010
Creator:Carlos Xisto
Group Forum: MHD flows Group Forum I do not know how active this group is!
Cantera
Thank you again sir... I'll try to do mix with this group
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Old   October 20, 2011, 09:39
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Mirko Vukovic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinesh2n@gmail.com View Post
Hello,
I am curious about that is it possible to use OpenFOAM in fusion plasma? As fusion plasma has some different properties than cold plasma. It is collisionless and quasineutral. But under certian approximations it can be treated as fluid. So is it possible to develop code in OpenFOAM for simulation of such plasma in toroidal geometry?

thank you
Regards
Can you state the equations that you are trying to solve?
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Old   October 20, 2011, 10:27
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Patricio Bohorquez
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Have you tried BOUT++?: https://bout2011.llnl.gov/

It shares many points in common with OpenFOAM philosophy and is devoted to tokamak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinesh2n@gmail.com View Post
I am doing PhD in Tokamak fusion plasma. I have seen that OF has been used for plasma Ark and liquid metal flows in tokamak Blankets. Now, if I think to use OF in tokamak plasma, and as you also pointed out the possibility as yes, I wish not to get lost in between.
Earlier I have worked on OF in a convection problem. it seems me that programmer's guide function would support the work, because the required function have been used in liquid metal flows, where MHD equations are solved. After all tokamk plasma also uses modified MHD equations. So my guess OF could be used for the same.
I request you please say something more on this. so that I could get better confirmation and start working on it. Your comments are welcome.

Thank you


thank you
Dinesh
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Old   October 20, 2011, 11:59
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Dinesh Nath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbohorquez View Post
Have you tried BOUT++?: https://bout2011.llnl.gov/

It shares many points in common with OpenFOAM philosophy and is devoted to tokamak.
Sir, you are exactly right. There was an statement of Dr. Dudson that BOUT++ and OpenFOAM are somewhat similar (http://arxiv.org/abs/0810.5757), except that BOUT++ works in general coordinates (field-aligned) system whereas OF only works for Cartesian coordinates. So, my question arose from that.
I thought to request for BOUT++ code to Dr. Dudson and Prof. Xu, but my supervisor suggested me to develop my own code. So, I am trying myself and I do not use BOUT++, however I am aware of this.
Do you work in BOUT++? As you are professor and having understanding of fusion plasma, you must be knowing about this question better. Kindly help me in resolving the question that should I try to develop separately the code or use OF for the code development for tokamak plasma. I also wish to know your areas of interests/research in fusion plasma and email address.

thank you sir
regards
Dinesh
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Old   October 20, 2011, 12:23
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Patricio Bohorquez
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I'm sorry but my topic is fluid mechanics, not plasma. So I can just inform you that the code is available at https://github.com/bendudson/BOUT-1.0/wiki and that the programming style seems similar. There is a lot of info to download at the workshop agenda. You can have a look at Bout++ examples and also at OpenFOAM applications to elect or compare both.
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Old   October 20, 2011, 12:33
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Dinesh Nath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirko View Post
Can you state the equations that you are trying to solve?
Dear sir,

Roughly, the Ideal Magnetohydrodynamics equation are in following wiki link : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetohydrodynamics
In actual case i.e. in Toroidal geometry, the magnetic field has a complicated topology and can not be described by the Cartesian coordinates. Hence the various operators nabla, Laplcian and other discritization have to be done/defined in so called flux coordinates (http://www-fusion.ciemat.es/fusionwi...ux_coordinates).
These are different then cylindrical and spherical coordinates and are suitable only for a tokamak plasma.

After posting this question I came to realise that if OF only works in Cartesian and the operators/functions are defined in that way then it would not be possible to use OF for tokamak plasma. I might be wrong if you have better idea please suggest.
i.e. Question: Can we redefine operator/function of OF for our purpose. If so then why one would do it in OF, shouldn't he do separate coding.?

I also want to say that in tokmak blanket case OF works because the liquid metal coolant flows around the tokamak in channel geometry where Cartesian operators/functions work.

request for the further comments

thank you

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