relative velocity

Zaktatir · June 10, 2010, 11:34

hello,
how can i calculate the relative velocity between air (continuous) flowing over water (continuous) in CFX..i need a mean value that means a difference between the velocity in the air core flow and in the water layer because the velocity (inhomogeneous calculation) at the Void_Level=0.5 is near zero (interphase)

Zaktatir · June 10, 2010, 11:42

or how can i calculate the drag force (mixture model) i need this relative velocity

ghorrocks · June 10, 2010, 18:34

Why do you need it? The variable slip velocity is available for post processing.

The relative velocity is already built into the drag force calculation in CFX, you don't need to calculate it again. You just call for the drag law you want.

Zaktatir · June 11, 2010, 02:42

i need it for further calculation in cfx pre.. i need this velocity to calculate the most instabil wave and the wavenumber and the wavegrowth... i need it not in post

ghorrocks · June 14, 2010, 18:26

Have you tried to use it in the solver? You can access a lot of variable in the solver, but not all of them.

Zaktatir · June 15, 2010, 02:34

what do you mean with in he solver...
with two continuous phases there is no slip velocity variable?
any ideaaa

ghorrocks · June 15, 2010, 07:01

Most variables available in CFD-Post are also available in the solver during a simulation. I am not sure if the relative velocity variable is available in the solver so have you checked?

Zaktatir · June 15, 2010, 07:32

There is no variable called relative velocity in post or in pre.

That's why was my question at the beginning.

Because the relative velocity is at the free surface equal to zero (theory since there is jump between the velocity profile) want to estimate or to create a velocity difference not directly at the free surface but in the vicinity (boarders of the two phase layer)

ghorrocks · June 15, 2010, 07:57

The variable Slip Velocity is available in CFD-Post, it is in the variables list. I am not sure it is in the solver though. It probably is.

In a inhomogeneous flow there will be a slip velocity between the phases so the slip velocity will exist, even at VF=0.5.

Zaktatir · June 15, 2010, 08:55

i don't find this slip velocity variable: i think this variable is only to find in case of Euler/Lagrange or continuous phase/dispersed phase

ghorrocks · June 15, 2010, 18:23

OK, but as the variable you talk about is fundamental to a inhomogeneous model it will be in there somewhere, it is just a matter of finding its name. Look in the CEL reference guide in the documentation for the list of variables and hopefully you will find it.

Zaktatir · June 16, 2010, 02:58

such a kind of variable doesn´t exist for Euler-Euler (with my two continuous phases ).. i hink you mean the slip velocity variable related to particles or 1 continuous+1 disperse:

Slip Velocity
slipvel
[ ]
1
C, M, R, TS
Velocity of an algebraic slip component relative to the continuous component.

i need a method to estimate this velocity

Zaktatir · June 16, 2010, 04:57

can i change the variables list file ?

ghorrocks · June 16, 2010, 08:27

No. But somewhere in the list will be the variable you are looking for. You just need to find it.

Zaktatir · June 16, 2010, 08:31

no ...
Drag=Cd*A*rho_light phase*Urel^2 in the mixture mode
this relative velocity doesn´t exist in the variable list...
slip magnitude exists only in other models not in inhomogeneous two continuous phase model

ghorrocks · June 16, 2010, 18:36

Have a look in the <CFX_ROOT>/etc/VARIABLES and RULES files. I can find the following variables, not sure exactly which one you need but hopefully it is one of them:
Slip Velocity Magnitude
Slip Reynolds Number
Slip Velocity
Drift Velocity

Zaktatir · June 17, 2010, 02:04

this variable are usable only when there is one continuous phase+dispersed phase ....
i saw already this variables

in my case i have at least 2 continuous phase... thats why was asking for idea how to estimate it.... and which Urel takes then CFX to calculation for the Drag force

ghorrocks · June 17, 2010, 08:14

OK. Have you tried something like U Velocity.phase1-U Velocity.phase 2?

Zaktatir · June 17, 2010, 09:34

yeah i tried that, but my Water.Velocity U Field is the same like the velocity field of Air although the calculation is inhomogeneous, and if use the superficial ones, it leads to value near zero (off course due to the volume fractions) thats why i wanted to estimte a relative velocity under the assumption that i have two constant Velocities (under and above the interface)... Onlx the cells at the interface have both entities (water and air) the other not.. and i am not sure if i can while calculating take the average value of Air.Velocity Field and the average value of Water.Velocity Field every time step and for every X location and then build the difference...

i hope u can follow it..

ghorrocks · June 17, 2010, 19:43

I don't follow what you are saying, and I don't understand why Water.Velocity U-Air.Velocity U does not give what you want.

June 10, 2010, 11:34	relative velocity	#1
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	hello, how can i calculate the relative velocity between air (continuous) flowing over water (continuous) in CFX..i need a mean value that means a difference between the velocity in the air core flow and in the water layer because the velocity (inhomogeneous calculation) at the Void_Level=0.5 is near zero (interphase)

June 15, 2010, 08:55		#10
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	i don't find this slip velocity variable: i think this variable is only to find in case of Euler/Lagrange or continuous phase/dispersed phase Last edited by Zaktatir; June 15, 2010 at 08:56. Reason: :

June 16, 2010, 02:58		#12
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	such a kind of variable doesn´t exist for Euler-Euler (with my two continuous phases ).. i hink you mean the slip velocity variable related to particles or 1 continuous+1 disperse: Slip Velocity slipvel [ ] 1 C, M, R, TS Velocity of an algebraic slip component relative to the continuous component. i need a method to estimate this velocity Last edited by Zaktatir; June 16, 2010 at 03:47. Reason: :

June 17, 2010, 09:34		#19
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	yeah i tried that, but my Water.Velocity U Field is the same like the velocity field of Air although the calculation is inhomogeneous, and if use the superficial ones, it leads to value near zero (off course due to the volume fractions) thats why i wanted to estimte a relative velocity under the assumption that i have two constant Velocities (under and above the interface)... Onlx the cells at the interface have both entities (water and air) the other not.. and i am not sure if i can while calculating take the average value of Air.Velocity Field and the average value of Water.Velocity Field every time step and for every X location and then build the difference... i hope u can follow it.. Last edited by Zaktatir; June 17, 2010 at 09:37. Reason: :

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
how to derive relative velocity in MRFSimpleFoam?	renyun0511	OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD	24	June 8, 2017 02:23
Problem Interface Solid Fluid with wall velocity Solver v12	hills1	CFX	2	October 12, 2009 05:36
relative velocity vectors	carno	FLUENT	0	May 9, 2008 06:59
Neumann pressure BC and velocity field	Antech	Main CFD Forum	0	April 25, 2006 02:15
what the result is negatif pressure at inlet	chong chee nan	FLUENT	0	December 29, 2001 05:13

June 10, 2010, 11:42		#2
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	or how can i calculate the drag force (mixture model) i need this relative velocity

June 10, 2010, 18:34		#3
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	Why do you need it? The variable slip velocity is available for post processing. The relative velocity is already built into the drag force calculation in CFX, you don't need to calculate it again. You just call for the drag law you want.

June 11, 2010, 02:42		#4
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	i need it for further calculation in cfx pre.. i need this velocity to calculate the most instabil wave and the wavenumber and the wavegrowth... i need it not in post

June 14, 2010, 18:26		#5
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	Have you tried to use it in the solver? You can access a lot of variable in the solver, but not all of them.

June 15, 2010, 02:34		#6
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	what do you mean with in he solver... with two continuous phases there is no slip velocity variable? any ideaaa

June 15, 2010, 07:01		#7
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	Most variables available in CFD-Post are also available in the solver during a simulation. I am not sure if the relative velocity variable is available in the solver so have you checked?

June 15, 2010, 07:32		#8
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	There is no variable called relative velocity in post or in pre. That's why was my question at the beginning. Because the relative velocity is at the free surface equal to zero (theory since there is jump between the velocity profile) want to estimate or to create a velocity difference not directly at the free surface but in the vicinity (boarders of the two phase layer)

June 15, 2010, 07:57		#9
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	The variable Slip Velocity is available in CFD-Post, it is in the variables list. I am not sure it is in the solver though. It probably is. In a inhomogeneous flow there will be a slip velocity between the phases so the slip velocity will exist, even at VF=0.5.

June 15, 2010, 18:23		#11
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	OK, but as the variable you talk about is fundamental to a inhomogeneous model it will be in there somewhere, it is just a matter of finding its name. Look in the CEL reference guide in the documentation for the list of variables and hopefully you will find it.

June 16, 2010, 04:57		#13
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	can i change the variables list file ?

June 16, 2010, 08:27		#14
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	No. But somewhere in the list will be the variable you are looking for. You just need to find it.

June 16, 2010, 08:31		#15
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	no ... Drag=CdArho_light phase*Urel^2 in the mixture mode this relative velocity doesn´t exist in the variable list... slip magnitude exists only in other models not in inhomogeneous two continuous phase model

June 16, 2010, 18:36		#16
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	Have a look in the <CFX_ROOT>/etc/VARIABLES and RULES files. I can find the following variables, not sure exactly which one you need but hopefully it is one of them: Slip Velocity Magnitude Slip Reynolds Number Slip Velocity Drift Velocity

June 17, 2010, 02:04		#17
Zaktatir Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Germany Posts: 268 Rep Power: 17	this variable are usable only when there is one continuous phase+dispersed phase .... i saw already this variables in my case i have at least 2 continuous phase... thats why was asking for idea how to estimate it.... and which Urel takes then CFX to calculation for the Drag force

June 17, 2010, 08:14		#18
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	OK. Have you tried something like U Velocity.phase1-U Velocity.phase 2?

June 17, 2010, 19:43		#20
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,701 Rep Power: 143	I don't follow what you are saying, and I don't understand why Water.Velocity U-Air.Velocity U does not give what you want.