Manifold intake simulation

Super Sonic · January 6, 2012, 11:30

Hi,

I am trying to simulated a simple manifold intake in a transiend state simulation .My problem is that I can't find exaclty the way to do this. For example should I also need to improt some kind of .txt file with some values. If somebody can upload some kind of file to help me I will arrpesiate that. I just need the steps on the set up stage.

Thank you very much!

ghorrocks · January 8, 2012, 19:35

Define your boundary condition as a function of time (either a CEL expression or a 1D interpolation function) and use that as the boundary value.

Super Sonic · January 9, 2012, 04:00

Thank you very much for your respond.I wondered if it is possible to send me an example of what you just explain me, because I am very struggle after one point on this software. But with an example I think I can handle it.

Thank you very much again.

ghorrocks · January 9, 2012, 04:47

I do not have time to upload an example. But the tutorial examples have examples of using CEL expressions so you should look there.

Super Sonic · January 15, 2012, 04:38

Ok no problem.Do you know how I can relpy by my problem to all, so If it's possible form somebody to help me further.Because still I am very struggle with that issue.

Thanks again:
rolleyes:

ghorrocks · January 15, 2012, 04:50

What input data do you have? Massflow versus time at the exhaust valve? Pressure versus time? This is step 1.

Super Sonic · January 15, 2012, 15:48

I want to apply atmospheric pressure in the inlet.And I have 2 outlets (2 runners) on which I want to apply 0.035 kg/s (on each) mass flow rate. All I need is a full example on the setup stage in the CFX.

Thanks again.

Super Sonic · January 15, 2012, 15:49

Pressure versus time Ι want to apply

Super Sonic · January 15, 2012, 15:51

Because for example, I saw some other files ,as exemples which had also some x,y,z coordinates. That is an issue for me because I don't know what kind of coordinates are those.

Thanks

ghorrocks · January 15, 2012, 16:56

I have done this type of analysis many times. It is quite straight forward. Are you interested in the transient or steady state flow? If transient are you trying to model the pressure waves?

You define the mass flow as a function of time, and if you have many cylinders with different timing you need to define multiple functions (or link them with a time offset or what ever is appropriate). This function of time will normally be applied as a 1D interpolation function that returns a mass flow rate for a time value. So you then apply the mass flow boundary condition on the valves with the mass flow rate defined as the function.

If you are trying to model the pressure waves in the system I strongly recommend you do some preliminary work first on pressure waves in a simple straight duct so you can see what is important. Shock wave propogation in a straight duct has a simple analytical solution so you should get this simple case working accurately before attempting the 3D complex version.

Super Sonic · January 15, 2012, 17:24

Ok, maybe it is better for you (and I terribly sorry that I am doing this to you, it's just I am very struggle on this point of level).

First of all lets say that we have a system (call it manifold intake) and I have 1 inlet and 2 outlets. Now on the intake as a boundary condition I apply the atmospheric pressure. At the outlet (were we have two of them) I want to apply the mass flow rate e.i. 'x' value Kg/s. Now, I want to run the simulation in transient state and by the way were a manifold intake works. I want to start with something simple on this field to understand it correctly, so after that I can carry on with something more complicated. I 've all ready have run a transient state but I don't know how to create expression by function of "something" e.i. time. I tried to understand it by the tutorials and many others ways, but still nothing.I know were to create expressions by I don't know how to define them. That's why an example where I can see what kind of commands you gave, will help me once and for all.

Thanks again for everything.

ghorrocks · January 15, 2012, 17:56

Have another look in the documentation and tutorials on 1D interpolation functions. They are quite straight forward.

Super Sonic · January 16, 2012, 07:56

Hi, I saw tha chapter about the 1D interpolation function. Now on my file I greate a user function and I applied it in the inlet(where I gave all the appropriate data).Now when I trying to run it the programm (ANSYS 12) give me the picture bellow as you can see

error.jpg

and the setup has question mark and down in the messages seas:
Cannot DefineRun without a valid definition file.

The only thing I did it was to create the function and put it into the inlet boundary:
Function called: pressure
In the boundary : "pressure(t)"
To be as a function of time

Thanks

ghorrocks · January 16, 2012, 16:21

You cannot name a function "pressure". That variable name is already reserved.

Can you post either a screen shot from CFX-Pre or the CCL file?

Super Sonic · January 16, 2012, 18:29

The txt file has the values where I gave by importing the file (.txt).You can see also some pitctures

Super Sonic · January 16, 2012, 18:30

Those are also from the same error

ghorrocks · January 16, 2012, 18:50

Your images are barely readable, but it seems you have mm as the input argument. It should be a unit of time (maybe seconds?).

Super Sonic · January 17, 2012, 11:35

Ok I gave time int the argument units : sec.
But the programm is still denited to run.I appload you some pictures to see again.
When I put in to the inlet boundary condition the funtion : running (I named it), in to a brackets e.i. "running".

Because When I dot that then the programma it's not accepted to run the simulation because it gives me a guestion mark at the main screen of ANSYS on the Setup step (see the photo)
Should I click to the "Suppress physics error" ?

Thanks

Super Sonic · January 17, 2012, 11:35

And also those

ghorrocks · January 17, 2012, 16:45

Your images are still hardly readable. Do not use the lossy JPG format, use a lossless format like PNG. Also do not reduce the size of the images.

You appear to have defined the argument unit as "sec". The correct unit is "s". Also your result unit is "KPa". The correct unit is "kPa". The variables format is listed in the documentation.

January 6, 2012, 11:30	Manifold intake simulation	#1
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Hi, I am trying to simulated a simple manifold intake in a transiend state simulation .My problem is that I can't find exaclty the way to do this. For example should I also need to improt some kind of .txt file with some values. If somebody can upload some kind of file to help me I will arrpesiate that. I just need the steps on the set up stage. Thank you very much!

January 9, 2012, 04:00	Manifold intake	#3
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Thank you very much for your respond.I wondered if it is possible to send me an example of what you just explain me, because I am very struggle after one point on this software. But with an example I think I can handle it. Thank you very much again.

January 15, 2012, 04:38	Intake Manifold	#5
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Ok no problem.Do you know how I can relpy by my problem to all, so If it's possible form somebody to help me further.Because still I am very struggle with that issue. Thanks again: rolleyes:

January 15, 2012, 04:50		#6
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	What input data do you have? Massflow versus time at the exhaust valve? Pressure versus time? This is step 1. anupam solanki likes this.

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January 8, 2012, 19:35		#2
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	Define your boundary condition as a function of time (either a CEL expression or a 1D interpolation function) and use that as the boundary value.

January 9, 2012, 04:47		#4
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	I do not have time to upload an example. But the tutorial examples have examples of using CEL expressions so you should look there.

January 15, 2012, 15:48		#7
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	I want to apply atmospheric pressure in the inlet.And I have 2 outlets (2 runners) on which I want to apply 0.035 kg/s (on each) mass flow rate. All I need is a full example on the setup stage in the CFX. Thanks again.

January 15, 2012, 15:49		#8
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Pressure versus time Ι want to apply

January 15, 2012, 15:51		#9
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Because for example, I saw some other files ,as exemples which had also some x,y,z coordinates. That is an issue for me because I don't know what kind of coordinates are those. Thanks

January 15, 2012, 16:56		#10
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	I have done this type of analysis many times. It is quite straight forward. Are you interested in the transient or steady state flow? If transient are you trying to model the pressure waves? You define the mass flow as a function of time, and if you have many cylinders with different timing you need to define multiple functions (or link them with a time offset or what ever is appropriate). This function of time will normally be applied as a 1D interpolation function that returns a mass flow rate for a time value. So you then apply the mass flow boundary condition on the valves with the mass flow rate defined as the function. If you are trying to model the pressure waves in the system I strongly recommend you do some preliminary work first on pressure waves in a simple straight duct so you can see what is important. Shock wave propogation in a straight duct has a simple analytical solution so you should get this simple case working accurately before attempting the 3D complex version.

January 15, 2012, 17:24		#11
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Ok, maybe it is better for you (and I terribly sorry that I am doing this to you, it's just I am very struggle on this point of level). First of all lets say that we have a system (call it manifold intake) and I have 1 inlet and 2 outlets. Now on the intake as a boundary condition I apply the atmospheric pressure. At the outlet (were we have two of them) I want to apply the mass flow rate e.i. 'x' value Kg/s. Now, I want to run the simulation in transient state and by the way were a manifold intake works. I want to start with something simple on this field to understand it correctly, so after that I can carry on with something more complicated. I 've all ready have run a transient state but I don't know how to create expression by function of "something" e.i. time. I tried to understand it by the tutorials and many others ways, but still nothing.I know were to create expressions by I don't know how to define them. That's why an example where I can see what kind of commands you gave, will help me once and for all. Thanks again for everything.

January 15, 2012, 17:56		#12
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	Have another look in the documentation and tutorials on 1D interpolation functions. They are quite straight forward.

January 16, 2012, 07:56		#13
Super Sonic New Member Athanasios Papadopoulos Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 23 Rep Power: 14	Hi, I saw tha chapter about the 1D interpolation function. Now on my file I greate a user function and I applied it in the inlet(where I gave all the appropriate data).Now when I trying to run it the programm (ANSYS 12) give me the picture bellow as you can see error.jpg and the setup has question mark and down in the messages seas: Cannot DefineRun without a valid definition file. The only thing I did it was to create the function and put it into the inlet boundary: Function called: pressure In the boundary : "pressure(t)" To be as a function of time Thanks

January 16, 2012, 16:21		#14
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	You cannot name a function "pressure". That variable name is already reserved. Can you post either a screen shot from CFX-Pre or the CCL file?

January 16, 2012, 18:50		#17
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	Your images are barely readable, but it seems you have mm as the input argument. It should be a unit of time (maybe seconds?).

January 17, 2012, 16:45		#20
ghorrocks Super Moderator Glenn Horrocks Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 17,703 Rep Power: 143	Your images are still hardly readable. Do not use the lossy JPG format, use a lossless format like PNG. Also do not reduce the size of the images. You appear to have defined the argument unit as "sec". The correct unit is "s". Also your result unit is "KPa". The correct unit is "kPa". The variables format is listed in the documentation.