# air water flow

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 January 27, 2020, 09:52 air water flow #1 New Member   hella Join Date: Dec 2019 Location: Tunisia Posts: 10 Rep Power: 3 Hello everyone, I have two questions: 1.I'm working on a horizontal air-water confined flow, and I got the slug flow. The problem is when the slug hits the upper part of the channel and blocks the air, this air must return as I think. But it doesn't. Do you have an explanation for this? I'm sure that the air doesn't return because the air BC is velocity inlet, but I really want to understand where did the air goes once a slug blocks its passage to the outlet? 2. Since I'm working with two incompressible flows, is it wrong that I didn't use "operating density"? (Im working with VOF Model). I'll be grateful if you help me. Thanks

 January 29, 2020, 05:05 Details #2 Senior Member     Vinerm Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nederland Posts: 2,946 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33 Hi Since the scenario is not very clear to me from the description, could you share more details, may be a couple of images of the domain? __________________ Regards, Vinerm PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.

January 29, 2020, 09:43
#3
New Member

hella
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tunisia
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by vinerm Hi Since the scenario is not very clear to me from the description, could you share more details, may be a couple of images of the domain?
hello,
So the domain is like this:
Rectangular channel with two inlets: one for water and the other for air.
I keep raising the air velocity while the water velocity is fixed until a slug appears.
For this critical air velocity (where slug appears), the water blocks the passage of air. The air keeps pushing the slug until it leaves the channel.
My problem is, at the time that we have the water blocking the air, physically the air must return, but it doesn't..So I don't understand what's happening at that moment.
config.PNG

slug.PNG

 January 29, 2020, 09:56 Suggestions #4 Senior Member     Vinerm Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nederland Posts: 2,946 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33 There are two important points here 1. Operating density and operating pressure have to be set as 0 2. Air has to be modeled as ideal gas There is another important point, which may be relevant. If air is pushed back because it hits water wave, then water has to be modeled as compressible as well using compressible liquid density model. There are a few phenomena that are based on specific properties and if those are not included, phenomena are not observed in CFD. E.g., water hammer cannot be observed without modeling water as compressible liquid, shock wave cannot be observed without modeling gas as ideal or real gas, Joule-Thomson cannot be observed until gas is modeled as real gas (ideal gas never heats up or cools down). __________________ Regards, Vinerm PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.

January 29, 2020, 10:42
#5
New Member

hella
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tunisia
Posts: 10
Rep Power: 3
Quote:
 Originally Posted by vinerm There are two important points here 1. Operating density and operating pressure have to be set as 0 2. Air has to be modeled as ideal gas There is another important point, which may be relevant. If air is pushed back because it hits water wave, then water has to be modeled as compressible as well using compressible liquid density model. There are a few phenomena that are based on specific properties and if those are not included, phenomena are not observed in CFD. E.g., water hammer cannot be observed without modeling water as compressible liquid, shock wave cannot be observed without modeling gas as ideal or real gas, Joule-Thomson cannot be observed until gas is modeled as real gas (ideal gas never heats up or cools down).
I'm modeling both fluids as incompressible, so you think this is wrong?
And concerning the operating density, by putting zero you mean to disable it? please see attached photos and bear with me, thank youair.PNG

water.PNG

operationg conditions.PNG

 January 29, 2020, 10:48 Compressibility is important here #6 Senior Member     Vinerm Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nederland Posts: 2,946 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33 Value of 0 does not disable these. Rather Fluent starts using pressure values as absolute values; default is gauge. Operating density is used to determine the buoyancy. For the time being, let water be as it is. But for gas, select ideal gas. You may disable the energy equation and assume that water and air are at same temperature. With incompressible gas, you may not observe what you are expecting. The downstream pressure has to increase beyond the upstream for air to return. That can happen only when pressure is real pressure, i.e., using ideal gas law. __________________ Regards, Vinerm PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.

January 29, 2020, 10:51
#7
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hella
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tunisia
Posts: 10
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by vinerm Value of 0 does not disable these. Rather Fluent starts using pressure values as absolute values; default is gauge. Operating density is used to determine the buoyancy. For the time being, let water be as it is. But for gas, select ideal gas. You may disable the energy equation and assume that water and air are at same temperature. With incompressible gas, you may not observe what you are expecting. The downstream pressure has to increase beyond the upstream for air to return. That can happen only when pressure is real pressure, i.e., using ideal gas law.
Thank you so much
So i'll only change the gas as ideal and see what happens?
I'll keep the operating density as it is?

 January 29, 2020, 10:55 Settings #8 Senior Member     Vinerm Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Nederland Posts: 2,946 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 33 You have to set operating density and operating pressure to 0. Along with that, set 101325 Pa as pressure at the outlet and inlet. __________________ Regards, Vinerm PM to be used if and only if you do not want something to be shared publicly. PM is considered to be of the least priority.