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-   -   Divergence and High Aspect Ratios (https://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/fluent/113112-divergence-high-aspect-ratios.html)

flotus1 February 16, 2013 17:32

Is this a picture of the actual mesh you are using?
If yes, add at least prism layers at the walls.

What mach number do you expect in your simulation? How high is the pressure at the inlet and outlet respectively?

Edit: Am I right assuming that the prism layers you added are so thin compared to the tet elements that they cannot be seen in the picture of your last post?

victoryv February 16, 2013 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by flotus1 (Post 408219)
Is this a picture of the actual mesh you are using?
If yes, add at least prism layers at the walls.

What mach number do you expect in your simulation? How high is the pressure at the inlet and outlet respectively?

I have added prism layers at the bottom wall.The Mach no is around 0.3. The pressure at the inlet is 103000 Pa and the outlet is what I have to find by comparing the exp results.

flotus1 February 16, 2013 17:50

Since you are experiencing convergence issues, I would try a simulation with a velocity or mass flow inlet, at least to get better initial values for the following simulations.

Getting back to the prism layers, are you sure that the volume jump is better this time?

Additionally, I strongly recommend to use a hexa mesh, especially since the whole geometry basically consists of one hexaeder. A good mesh is one thing less to worry about in CFD;)
This could even be done with the Ansys mesher.

victoryv February 16, 2013 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by flotus1 (Post 408223)
Since you are experiencing convergence issues, I would try a simulation with a velocity or mass flow inlet, at least to get better initial values for the following simulations.

Getting back to the prism layers, are you sure that the volume jump is better this time?

Additionally, I strongly recommend to use a hexa mesh, especially since the whole geometry basically consists of one hexaeder. A good mesh is one thing less to worry about in CFD;)
This could even be done with the Ansys mesher.

I know the stagnation pressure and stagnation temp at inlet. Thats why I am using preesure inlet. yes, the volume jump is far better now. Yeah, i will try improving the mesh . If that does not succeed , I will try multizone mesh.

Far February 16, 2013 22:42

instead of symmetry , specify them as slip wall.

Extend domain by some unit lengths at inlet and outlet

victoryv February 17, 2013 00:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far (Post 408232)
instead of symmetry , specify them as slip wall.

Extend domain by some unit lengths at inlet and outlet

Is there other option than symmetry for modeling slip walls?. Also, but if we extend the domain at the inlet and outlet, it changes the parameters (velocity, pressure) inside the domain right?

Far February 17, 2013 01:13

Specify extended walls as slip so you will not have any boundary layer development or pressure loss.

You can define as slip wall by specifying shear stress = 0. It will have same effect as symmetry. Moreover symmetry condition has some special purpose and it has different mathematical definition.

victoryv February 17, 2013 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far (Post 408241)
Specify extended walls as slip so you will not have any boundary layer development or pressure loss.

You can define as slip wall by specifying shear stress = 0. It will have same effect as symmetry. Moreover symmetry condition has some special purpose and it has different mathematical definition.

Oh, i totally forgot that we can specify shear stress in "wall" boundary condition. Thanks man . Also, i will try extending the the inlet and outlet.

flotus1 February 17, 2013 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Far (Post 408241)
You can define as slip wall by specifying shear stress = 0. It will have same effect as symmetry. Moreover symmetry condition has some special purpose and it has different mathematical definition.

This is the first time I heard of this. Are you sure? Where exactly is the difference?

Far February 17, 2013 02:36

I always face convergence problems with symmetry, which is not the case with slip wall.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghorrocks (Post 386130)
This is described in the documentation.

Symmetry enforces zero normal gradient to all parameters, and a slip wall does not necessarily do this. But for most normal simulations they are equivalent.

And a symmetry plane is required to be planar, but a slip wall can be any shape.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Hegedus (Post 367117)
In general, slip and symmetry are much the same, if not exactly the same. But, sometimes it is implementation dependent. For example one could have p(-1)=p(1) for symmetry but p(0)=p(1) for wall. Also, the turbulence model boundary conditions could be different. OK, I don't know what it means to have a slip turbulence model, but I guess that depends on what someone is trying to do. Also, a turbulence model could depend on the distance from a surface. So it's possible that setting a far field condition to a wall will affect the turbulence model.

But, the answer, to first order, is that they are the same.

http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/mai...condition.html

Far February 17, 2013 04:00

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/68746918/CFDNotes06.ppt

Refer to slide 54 and 57. Why two lateral boundaries are set as symmetry and top and bottom as slip-wall? What will be effect if two side (lateral ) boundaries are set to slip-wall or periodic? What will happen if top and bottom walls are defined as symmetry or periodic?

Edit : Some notes from CFX

http://imageshack.us/a/img267/5679/slipc.png
http://imageshack.us/a/img20/7340/symmetry.png

RodriguezFatz February 17, 2013 07:42

Hi, you should switch off energy equation and try to run the simulation. If that diverges too, please switch the inlet to velocity inlet and try if it works. Pressure inlet and outlet are not the easiest choice.

hossam_ali February 17, 2013 12:10

reply for the wind tunnel simulation
 
hi i think the problem in ur mesh skewness

u should remesh and decrease the skeness to be less than now and this will decrease the squinsh of the mesh (to be less than 0.9)

RodriguezFatz February 18, 2013 10:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hossam_ali (Post 408314)
hi i think the problem in ur mesh skewness

u should remesh and decrease the skeness to be less than now and this will decrease the squinsh of the mesh (to be less than 0.9)

Maybe (or belike) the mesh is the problem, but normally meshing is also the most time consuming part of the whole process, so rather than remeshing I would try to spot the problem before starting...

victoryv February 19, 2013 00:26

I have tried extending boundaries and slip walls. No use. Still it is diverging.
I will try incompressible flow and velocity inlet and simulate once again.

RodriguezFatz February 19, 2013 02:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoryv (Post 408603)
I have tried extending boundaries and slip walls. No use. Still it is diverging.
I will try incompressible flow and velocity inlet and simulate once again.

You also had compressible flow? That's too much, you should really try to get simple settings running before switching on all additional equations...
Also, if you explain your case in a thread, please tell people everything about it and don't wait until post #50 to do so...:confused:

victoryv February 19, 2013 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by RodriguezFatz (Post 408614)
You also had compressible flow? That's too much, you should really try to get simple settings running before switching on all additional equations...
Also, if you explain your case in a thread, please tell people everything about it and don't wait until post #50 to do so...:confused:

I have written in the heading above the first post itself that I am doing steady state compressible. I am doing compressible because i have compressible results to compare with. Sorry for the confusion. :(

RodriguezFatz February 19, 2013 04:04

My bad! I didn't know that posts have captions. Anyway, switch off all these additional equations when something does not work and try to run it.

victoryv April 6, 2013 14:54

I am facing a new problem now. I got rid of all the previous problems. The solution was taking a lot of time and many iterations to reach steady state. So I have used FMG initialization and pseudo transient method( time step 0.001) to make the convergence faster. When I was trying to find mesh independent solution, after 3rd refinement, the solution (pressure and velocity) started oscillating where it was supposed to reach state.

How did the mesh refinement led to oscillations?
If mesh is not the problem, what could be the problem?

Far April 6, 2013 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by victoryv (Post 418791)
I am facing a new problem now. I got rid of all the previous problems. The solution was taking a lot of time and many iterations to reach steady state. So I have used FMG initialization and pseudo transient method( time step 0.001) to make the convergence faster. When I was trying to find mesh independent solution, after 3rd refinement, the solution (pressure and velocity) started oscillating where it was supposed to reach state.

How did the mesh refinement led to oscillations?
If mesh is not the problem, what could be the problem?

Because refined mesh is capturing some unsteady flow phenomena which was not being captured in coarse mesh.


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