[efirvida]

Hi!

After reading this thread I'm thinking of building a workstation for CFD based on Xeon E5 platform, just for meshing and testing cases before moving it to HPC. My budget is around $700.
As at the moment I don't want to post-process anything I would avoid a good GPU and put all the budget on the performance.

Seen prices in Alliexpress and eBay for used processors I seed that I can get good configurations as:

E5 2773-v3 -> $47.00
to
E5-2696v3 -> $126.00
and a lot of other offers in between.

Then I fond a dual socket 4 chanel per socket motherboards between 170-200
HUANANZHI X99 F8D X99 (DDR4)
HUANANZHI-X99 T8D X99 (DDR3)

With this I can setup a configurations with 2 xens and 8 channels of ram from nearly $300
using the E5 2773-v3, And all the rest of the money is for 8 modules of ram, heat disipators, PSU, and cheapest GPU (this board doesn't have one), and HDD.

So my question is, the price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 is not to much, but some peoples says that DDR3 are better.

This configuration worth the money in 2022, or there are better choices arownd there.

[wkernkamp]

Originally Posted by efirvida

Hi!
So my question is, the price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 is not to much, but some peoples says that DDR3 are better.

This configuration worth the money in 2022, or there are better choices arownd there.

Q1. You should go for DDR4-2400, to maximize the bandwidth. Most v3 and v4 xeons require DDR4. Note that v3 xeons go up to DDR4-2133, so that is slower. Better get a pair of E5-2680 v4 or E5-2683 v4. That should get you the best possible performance and these processors are now cheap as well.


Q2. There is a youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/Miyconst that does reviews on the chinese xeon motherboards. This is important, because many of these boards have something not working that you were perhaps going to rely on. First, search for the one you are thinking of buying. In addition, he makes recommendations from time to time. Look for X99 and Dual. The focus is on gaming, but he does a thorough job. Make sure the board you are getting supports DDR4-2400 in 8 channel configuration and v4 processors.



Xeon v3 Turboboost Unlock: On xeon v3 processors, it is possible to do turboboost unlock. This will allow the processors to do all core turboboost to the highest frequency. For CFD that is not interesting, because you will be limited by memory, cache and thermal throttling. In case you want to use it anyway, Miyconst has a package to do the turboboost unlock. Usually, the turboboost unlock is one of the features he tests on each motherboard.

[efirvida]

Originally Posted by wkernkamp

Xeon v3 Turboboost Unlock: On xeon v3 processors, it is possible to do turboboost unlock. This will allow the processors to do all core turboboost to the highest frequency. For CFD that is not interesting, because you will be limited by memory, cache and thermal throttling. In case you want to use it anyway, Miyconst has a package to do the turboboost unlock. Usually, the turboboost unlock is one of the features he tests on each motherboard.

Thanks for your reply, I have seen Miyconst's youtube channel, which is excellent, following it, is where I decided on the HUANANZHI brand on dual configurations, considering the VRAM dissipation, build quality and the 8 channels of RAM.

So as I understand, It will be better always DDR4 over de DDR3, considering V4 to get the maximum memory bandwidth, also I know that the V4 has more memory cache. But you point to something to me.... The Miyconst's tips are always for gaming, but that's not my use case. So I turbo boost will not improve anything? I don't need it, it will only cause overheating.

But I'm wondering if someone uses this type of machine under CFD hours and ours of workload. And if it worth the money

[wkernkamp]

Originally Posted by efirvida

Thanks for your reply, I have seen Miyconst's youtube channel, which is excellent, following it, is where I decided on the HUANANZHI brand on dual configurations, considering the VRAM dissipation, build quality and the 8 channels of RAM.

But I'm wondering if someone uses this type of machine under CFD hours and ours of workload. And if it worth the money

For lengthy runs, the xeons are always fine. The motherboard VRAM is also important. It looks like you have selected the right motherboard. For a xeon v4 workstation, you should be at the low cost point. You should get the largest quietest cpu fans/coolers you can find and will fit. If you do, the workstation can be very quiet even when running the CFD.


An interesting alternative is to use a single modern CPU, dual channel with very high DDR5 memory clock:
See

Originally Posted by ErikAdr

In total Dkr 7.533 which is € 1005 or $ 1147 (prices are excl V.A.T)

The best openfoam benchmark speed he got was107.09 seconds. If you set up your workstation properly, you should get about 70 seconds.



You could go lower cost by buying an old server. For example $330 + tax:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/18548165194...YAAOSwvjNiA60G


This one has two 10 core cpus. Should be pretty good already maybe 80 seconds on the benchmark. There will be an upgrade path to v4 and endurance isn't a problem. Nice feature: you can install up to 3 Compute GPUs. Warning: sounds like a jet engine when you run the CFD.

[CFDfan]

Originally Posted by efirvida

Hi!

After reading this thread I'm thinking of building a workstation for CFD based on Xeon E5 platform, just for meshing and testing cases before moving it to HPC. My budget is around $700.
As at the moment I don't want to post-process anything I would avoid a good GPU and put all the budget on the performance.

Seen prices in Alliexpress and eBay for used processors I seed that I can get good configurations as:

E5 2773-v3 -> $47.00
to
E5-2696v3 -> $126.00
and a lot of other offers in between.

Then I fond a dual socket 4 chanel per socket motherboards between 170-200
HUANANZHI X99 F8D X99 (DDR4)
HUANANZHI-X99 T8D X99 (DDR3)

With this I can setup a configurations with 2 xens and 8 channels of ram from nearly $300
using the E5 2773-v3, And all the rest of the money is for 8 modules of ram, heat disipators, PSU, and cheapest GPU (this board doesn't have one), and HDD.

So my question is, the price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 is not to much, but some peoples says that DDR3 are better.

This configuration worth the money in 2022, or there are better choices arownd there.

Your selection is a very, very good value for money. The only limitation I see are the 4 memory channels (instead of 8). I would go with ddr4

[Robert52]

Hello,

I think it is also better to go for DDR4.
_____________
https://botnation.ai/en/

[aparangement]

Never heard of "HUANANZHI" in China.

That been said, I do believe almost all the all the mojor motherboard companies are based in China..

Originally Posted by efirvida

Hi!

After reading this thread I'm thinking of building a workstation for CFD based on Xeon E5 platform, just for meshing and testing cases before moving it to HPC. My budget is around $700.
As at the moment I don't want to post-process anything I would avoid a good GPU and put all the budget on the performance.

Seen prices in Alliexpress and eBay for used processors I seed that I can get good configurations as:

E5 2773-v3 -> $47.00
to
E5-2696v3 -> $126.00
and a lot of other offers in between.

Then I fond a dual socket 4 chanel per socket motherboards between 170-200
HUANANZHI X99 F8D X99 (DDR4)
HUANANZHI-X99 T8D X99 (DDR3)

With this I can setup a configurations with 2 xens and 8 channels of ram from nearly $300
using the E5 2773-v3, And all the rest of the money is for 8 modules of ram, heat disipators, PSU, and cheapest GPU (this board doesn't have one), and HDD.

So my question is, the price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 is not to much, but some peoples says that DDR3 are better.

This configuration worth the money in 2022, or there are better choices arownd there.

[CFDfan]

Originally Posted by efirvida

Hi!

After reading this thread I'm thinking of building a workstation for CFD based on Xeon E5 platform, just for meshing and testing cases before moving it to HPC. My budget is around $700.
As at the moment I don't want to post-process anything I would avoid a good GPU and put all the budget on the performance.

Seen prices in Alliexpress and eBay for used processors I seed that I can get good configurations as:

E5 2773-v3 -> $47.00
to
E5-2696v3 -> $126.00
and a lot of other offers in between.

Then I fond a dual socket 4 chanel per socket motherboards between 170-200
HUANANZHI X99 F8D X99 (DDR4)
HUANANZHI-X99 T8D X99 (DDR3)

With this I can setup a configurations with 2 xens and 8 channels of ram from nearly $300
using the E5 2773-v3, And all the rest of the money is for 8 modules of ram, heat disipators, PSU, and cheapest GPU (this board doesn't have one), and HDD.

So my question is, the price difference between DDR3 and DDR4 is not to much, but some peoples says that DDR3 are better.

This configuration worth the money in 2022, or there are better choices arownd there.

If you buy the system above would you please share your experience.

[diegopena]

Have you bought? Any results?

[FliegenderZirkus]

Originally Posted by wkernkamp

Better get a pair of E5-2680 v4 or E5-2683 v4

I'm considering a build with the HUANANZHI X99-F8D motherboard as well. Does anyone have an opinion about pairing it with 145W TDP CPUs such as the E5-2697A v4? The CPUs mentioned above are in the 120W category. In the YouTube review by Miyconst the VRM temperatures were pretty low, so I expect this combination will work fine..?

[CFDfan]

Originally Posted by FliegenderZirkus

I'm considering a build with the HUANANZHI X99-F8D motherboard as well. Does anyone have an opinion about pairing it with 145W TDP CPUs such as the E5-2697A v4? The CPUs mentioned above are in the 120W category. In the YouTube review by Miyconst the VRM temperatures were pretty low, so I expect this combination will work fine..?

I have such system with two E5-2699v4 cores and the CPU cooling is not a big issue especially if you could position the CPU fans to run the air top-down. Used Noctua coolers and have about 70Cmax temperatures at full CPU load. There are cheaper, the same performance, Taiwanese alternatives of noctual called Priceless assassin (or something like that). My problem was to cool the 1.2V RAM cards (running at 75-78C) which came in a bundle with the MB and the CPUs. the VDIMM voltage of the MB was set to 1.35V and couldn't be changed in the bios (in general all Chinese motherboards have very basic bios with very limited functionality), so I had to install small fans for the ram cards only. To summarize - don't buy from a shop with less than 97-98% approval rating from thousands of customers. Berry in mind that after you pay the customer support is nonexistent and potential returns are pain to get approved and yet the postage should be paid by you. If you are lucky however you could build a cheap, dual CPU system with reasonable performance.

[FliegenderZirkus]

Thanks for the valuable information. I didn't find the bundles too attractive so I'd only get the motherboard form Aliexpress and source all other components elsewhere. Out of curiosity - did you run the motorbike benchmark on the dual E5-2699 v4? If so, what was your best time? I was hoping for ~60s with the E5-2697A v4, which should be similar to yours...

[CFDfan]

Originally Posted by FliegenderZirkus

Thanks for the valuable information. I didn't find the bundles too attractive so I'd only get the motherboard form Aliexpress and source all other components elsewhere. Out of curiosity - did you run the motorbike benchmark on the dual E5-2699 v4? If so, what was your best time? I was hoping for ~60s with the E5-2697A v4, which should be similar to yours...

I am not familiar (at all) with openFoam and am not a CFD professional in general. I am an electronic Engineer and use cradle CFD, only when needed, to solve thermal issues in our designs. It is not my main activity however, more like a hobby. What I can tell you in terms of comparison is that, when simulating the same, quite complex, CFD model, the dual e5-2699 system running 40 cores at 2.8GHz is about 1.5 times slower than AMD 5975wx system running 30 cores at 4.4Ghz. The AMD system is about 4-5 times more expensive however, so the performance/price of the dual Xeon system is very good.