
[Sponsors] 
October 1, 2012, 11:50 
Periodic Boundary Condition

#1 
Member
CC
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 73
Rep Power: 15 
Hi all,
I have a problem... I want simulate a flow in a pipe considering 2D axissymetric geometry with periodic boundary condition, but the pressure across the pipe length have a strange behavior with negative values. If I consider the inlet velocity boundary condition and outlet pressure boundary condition, the pressure profile is correct, but I need an entrance region and with the periodic boundary condition I can reduce the length... Please, someone can help me... What is wrong? Is the periodic boundary condition advisable for my problem? Thanks 

October 2, 2012, 04:15 

#2 
Member
SAM
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 74
Rep Power: 14 
do you use pressure force in streamwise direction?


October 2, 2012, 05:47 

#3 
Member
CC
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 73
Rep Power: 15 
I specified the mass flow rate and I want the value of pressure drop to compare with experimental data.


October 2, 2012, 05:48 

#4 
Super Moderator
Alex
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,426
Rep Power: 49 
Applying a periodic boundary condition in streamwise direction by simply copying the values from the outlet to the inlet results in the situation you observe.
Since there is a pressure drop along the channel, the pressure level gets lower every iteration. You could check this by running two simulations with different numbers of iterations. 

October 2, 2012, 05:59 

#5 
Member
SAM
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 74
Rep Power: 14 
Yes I know, but for priodic simulation the important part is dp which should be included in stramwise momentum equation to force the flow. for example for a channel this pressure force is :dpdx = 12./Re ,where Re is based on height of channel.


October 2, 2012, 06:08 

#6 
Super Moderator
Alex
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 3,426
Rep Power: 49 
So then what is the problem?
in an incompressible flow, you can compare the pressure drop (i.e. pressure derivative) to experimental data, independent of the pressure level. Of course it would be more correct to rescale the pressure at the periodic interface, but the derivative remains unchanged by this procedure. 

October 3, 2012, 05:17 

#7 
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 272
Rep Power: 16 
Yes for sure, but I guess the problem is how you implement these periodic boundary conditions.
first you should apply Phy(NI)=Phy(1) and Phy(0)=Phy(NI1) (BC are on node 0 and NI) Phy stands for u,v, P. If your solver is explicit it is easy, if your solver is implicit then you have to deal with this in your matrix. After you have to include in the x momentum the pressure drop to maintain the flow. It is related to the mass flow rate and in the case of a pipe flow or a channel flow there is an analytical expression. 

October 3, 2012, 05:49 

#8  
Senior Member
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,832
Rep Power: 73 
Quote:


October 3, 2012, 06:30 

#9  
Member
CC
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 73
Rep Power: 15 
Quote:


October 3, 2012, 06:41 

#10  
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 272
Rep Power: 16 
Quote:
But if you use Fluent , periodic BC are already implemented and you have nothing to do, just click on "Periodic Boundary Condition" If it doesn't work it is because you certainly did something wrong previously... 

October 3, 2012, 06:42 

#11 
Senior Member
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,832
Rep Power: 73 
negative values of the pressure means nothing useful... you must assess that youy have a basic (constant) negative pressure gradient with a superimposed periodic pressure fluctuation


October 7, 2012, 13:51 
2D Channel Flow eith Periodic boundaries in the streamwise directions

#12 
Member
Prasanth P
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 17 
Hi All,
I have written a 2D Incompressible NS solver for solving a channel flow with periodic boundary conditions. I am using a fractional step method(Kim and Moin 1985 JCP). I have non dimensionalized the equations. The rey_no is set to 100. Channel Dimensions: 2 units: in the streamwise and in the normal direction Time integration scheme: AB2 A constant pressure gradient of value 2.0/rey_no is specified. Staggered grid. Periodic bcn in the streamwise direction: u(ni,.)=u(1,.) u(0,.)=u(ni1,.) V(ni+1,.)=v(1,.) v(0,.)=v(ni,.) p(ni+1,.)=p(1,.) p(0,.)=p(ni,.) u and v represent the horizontal velocity components. p represents pressure. Boundary conditions in the normal direction: u(:,0)=u(:,1) //No Slip u(:,nj+1)=u(:,nj) //No penetration v(:,0)=0.0 v(:,nj)=0.0 dp/dn =0 at y=0 and y=2 Initial condition: I have tried several: u(:, j )=1.0 u(:,j)=parabola with centerline velocity=1 So, the analytical solution for this problem is a parabola with centerline velocity=1. But in my case the centerline velocity is greater than 1. I don't know why this is happening. Help of any kind would be appreciated. I would be more than happy to provide any extra information. Cheers Prasanth 

October 12, 2012, 12:48 

#13  
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 272
Rep Power: 16 
Quote:
No in the case of a channel flow the dimensionless velocity on the centerline is 1.5 Is it what you obtained? 

October 13, 2012, 01:29 

#14 
Member
Prasanth P
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 17 
[QUOTE
No in the case of a channel flow the dimensionless velocity on the centerline is 1.5 Is it what you obtained?[/QUOTE] Its 1.5 if you normalize with the average velocity. I am normalizing with the centreline velocity. The issue has been fixed. I applied the pressure gradient in the velocity update step (from u* to u n+1) and it worked. Thanks. 

October 14, 2012, 11:41 

#15 
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 272
Rep Power: 16 

November 17, 2012, 09:28 

#16 
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 14 
Hello all
I am using a periodic boundary condition pipe flow with an insert. I read in FLUENT user guide that the pressure drop has two components, a linear varying component and a periodic component. How do you get the periodic component? Is there a way of post processing the pressure drop that includes the two components??? 

November 18, 2012, 10:21 

#17 
Senior Member

There is no reason to post process the linearly varying part, as ALL the information you need about it is in the periodic condition panel, that is gradient and direction. The periodic component is the only one you get as solution and it is the only one available in the post processing.
If you want, you can define a custom field function with the following variable: p + dp/dx*(xx0) + dp/dy*(yy0) + dp/dz*(zz0) and you get them both 

November 19, 2012, 01:52 

#18  
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 14 
Quote:


November 19, 2012, 04:50 

#19 
Senior Member

In the custom field function above, the pressure is the one effectively solved for by Fluent; in this case it gives you p_in = p_out (at least for the straight pipe case).
If you performed a periodic computation by fixing the mass flow, then dp/dx is available in the periodic b.c. panel (it also has a direction, which you needed to fix... hopefully, along the pipe axis). So, to know the presure jump in your case you just need to compute dp/dx * L where L is the length of the pipe 

November 19, 2012, 04:58 
Periodic pressure drop

#20  
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 14 
Quote:
Thanks very much for the help. This is what i had settled for i would get dp/dx and then multiply by the length of the pipe. I realized that when i compute the friction factor it does not agree with that from experimental data. And when I use the linear gradient in the periodic panel it gives me an accurate answer! Could I be getting dp/dx at a wrong surface? 

Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
periodic boundary condition in LES  martor  FLUENT  3  April 30, 2022 00:20 
periodic boundary condition (translational) fluent 6.3  haihek  FLUENT  3  January 22, 2014 04:10 
Problem with a periodic boundary condition  chuck209  CFX  10  May 9, 2012 16:15 
External Radiation Boundary Condition for Grid Interface  CFD XUE  FLUENT  0  July 9, 2010 02:53 
translational periodic boundary condition  Rola Afify  FLUENT  2  September 12, 2006 08:39 