CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > General Forums > Main CFD Forum

Upwind scheme blows up when encountered a peak

Register Blogs Community New Posts Updated Threads Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   March 9, 2018, 18:53
Default
  #21
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 233
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 9
TurbJet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMDenaro View Post
I wrote few lines about your problem, I suggest to read 16.4.1 and 16.4.2 in the book of Leveque. You will see that the definition of the upwind criterion is quite more complex than you supposed.
I looked up those two sections you suggested, what I get from that is, due to the spatially varying flux, at some point the equation will lose its hyperbolicity, which might leads to multiple waves involved in its solution. I guess it might cause the upwind somehow invalid.

I tried to consider negative velocity as well to my scheme, not just assume always positive. The solution does not blow up any more, but the square wave does not hold any longer: it only leaves a peak (or compressed wave) plus some small waves moving to the right.

Would it be safe to say that general upwind is not suitable for this kind of equation unless further modification is added to the scheme?
TurbJet is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 9, 2018, 19:08
Default
  #22
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 233
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 9
TurbJet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMDenaro View Post
Well, I see that v0 produces a variation for x>=30 but the initial condition is upward. That makes me suppose that the starting of the compression region is downwind with respect to the used stencil [i-1,i]. Somehow, that does not respect the upwind criterion. I am not sure if this is the problem, just check the sign of the characteristic. This problem has differences from the standard non-linear Burgers equation.
But this interests me: for Lax-Friedrichs, it will never generate negative convective velocity. The convective velocity v_0(1-2u/c) will always stop right before it reaches 0. I am wondering perhaps because the scheme includes stencils for both upwind and downwind...
TurbJet is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 10, 2018, 03:59
Default
  #23
Senior Member
 
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,764
Rep Power: 71
FMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurbJet View Post
But this interests me: for Lax-Friedrichs, it will never generate negative convective velocity. The convective velocity v_0(1-2u/c) will always stop right before it reaches 0. I am wondering perhaps because the scheme includes stencils for both upwind and downwind...
The LF scheme is centred, therefore any direction is considered in the stencil.
The upwind scheme should be formulate in the general Godunov formulation, as illustrated in the book of Leveque. Maybe, you could also see the matlab sources of the clawpack software.
Have you tried to do the case with v0 is constant?
FMDenaro is online now   Reply With Quote

Old   March 11, 2018, 02:12
Default
  #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 233
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 9
TurbJet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMDenaro View Post
The LF scheme is centred, therefore any direction is considered in the stencil.
The upwind scheme should be formulate in the general Godunov formulation, as illustrated in the book of Leveque. Maybe, you could also see the matlab sources of the clawpack software.
Have you tried to do the case with v0 is constant?
Hm, I haven't tried v0 as constant. I'll give it a shot. I'll let you know.
TurbJet is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 11, 2018, 23:25
Default
  #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 233
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 9
TurbJet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMDenaro View Post
The LF scheme is centred, therefore any direction is considered in the stencil.
The upwind scheme should be formulate in the general Godunov formulation, as illustrated in the book of Leveque. Maybe, you could also see the matlab sources of the clawpack software.
Have you tried to do the case with v0 is constant?
I tried constant v0, the upwind worked fine. But with constant v0, it just lost its original physical meaning. It just becomes simply transporting the wave.
TurbJet is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 12, 2018, 03:40
Default
  #26
Senior Member
 
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,764
Rep Power: 71
FMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura about
The first order upwind is strongly diffusive, try to work using a very fine mesh
FMDenaro is online now   Reply With Quote

Old   March 12, 2018, 10:26
Default
  #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 233
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 9
TurbJet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMDenaro View Post
The first order upwind is strongly diffusive, try to work using a very fine mesh
Actually what I was trying to say is that with constant v0, the wave does not have this sudden jump when reaches the small v0 region (congested area). I was not trying to say the diffusive property of upwind.
TurbJet is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 12, 2018, 11:56
Default
  #28
Senior Member
 
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,764
Rep Power: 71
FMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurbJet View Post
Actually what I was trying to say is that with constant v0, the wave does not have this sudden jump when reaches the small v0 region (congested area). I was not trying to say the diffusive property of upwind.

But for v0=const you have a different physics, there is no congestion. You see this example in a different section of the book of Leveque. Try to compare your solution with those in the book.
FMDenaro is online now   Reply With Quote

Old   March 13, 2018, 23:51
Default
  #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: United States
Posts: 233
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 9
TurbJet is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by FMDenaro View Post
But for v0=const you have a different physics, there is no congestion. You see this example in a different section of the book of Leveque. Try to compare your solution with those in the book.
I mean no doubt that upwind will work for the case with v0=const. I was thinking of using upwind as low-resolution method for my flux-limiter for the original spatial-varying v0 case. Since upwind does not work for this, I guess I have to give it up and try other low-resolution scheme, may be Lax_Friedrichs
TurbJet is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   March 14, 2018, 10:46
Default
  #30
Senior Member
 
Filippo Maria Denaro
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 6,764
Rep Power: 71
FMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura aboutFMDenaro has a spectacular aura about
Quote:
Originally Posted by TurbJet View Post
I mean no doubt that upwind will work for the case with v0=const. I was thinking of using upwind as low-resolution method for my flux-limiter for the original spatial-varying v0 case. Since upwind does not work for this, I guess I have to give it up and try other low-resolution scheme, may be Lax_Friedrichs
I think that upwind works also for variable v0, provided that is formulated in the correct way, that is in the Godunov form. Try to see the matlab source of the clawpack software
FMDenaro is online now   Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
hyperbolic functions, lax-friedrichs, nonlinear equation, upwind schemes


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
bounded Gauss upwind Scheme deepinheart OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 1 February 23, 2015 05:57
Implementation of 2nd order upwind scheme jaason OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD 4 February 6, 2015 17:40
2nd order upwind vs 2nd order upwind!!! Far Main CFD Forum 7 March 14, 2013 12:29
Use of upwind scheme for interpolation of u/v quarkz Main CFD Forum 6 August 30, 2011 04:10
2nd order upwind scheme (Fluent and CFX) Far FLUENT 0 May 22, 2011 01:50


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 18:34.