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Fluent solves faster than my own CFD code? 

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September 10, 2021, 11:03 
Fluent solves faster than my own CFD code?

#1 
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Murat Can
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Hello dear colleuges,
I have encoded a CFD model for the flow between two parallel plates in the two dimensional space. But, when I solve the same conditions on the Ansys Fluent, it takes way shorter simulation time and number of iterations to get a convergent solution compared to my own code do. Also, in a convergent solution I am getting the same results between the analytical soluton, Ansys Fluent solution and my own CFD solution. But, somehow Fluent runs faster Could you please explain me the reason why it's like that? My code uses: 1) Finite Volume Method with Staggered Grid 2) QUICK, TVD, CD, UD and LUD Schemes (All of them slower than Fluent) 3) Under relaxations for velocities and pressure also included Best regards, mcanoenen 

September 10, 2021, 11:26 

#2 
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Lucky
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These are all highlevel schemes that determine the linear system needing to be solve. You need to consider what actually is the linear solver and how is it setup?
Here is an example of what it sounds like: Analytical Problem Code:
3x+1=2 Code:
3.01x+0.99=2.01 Code:
3.14x+1.01=2.11 

September 11, 2021, 05:35 

#3 
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Arjun
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In year 2007 to 2008 when I wrote my very first Navier Stokes solver I stumbled upon the same problem. The code was stable on very simple hex meshes and anything with tetra the solver would it was unstable. Let alone the fact that Fluent was faster.
Off course no one can tell here why Fluent is faster than your code or anyone's code because most people do not know what Fluent does and the ones those who know are not allowed to talk about it. Now that I have so many years of experience with this and my own code is quite stable, I would say that the stability comes from two reasons 1. Accuracy of descretization. It should be correctly done. 2. Limiting the variables and the change in variables. In your case the change in variable is such that solver converges slower (its like 3 steps forward and 1 step back, while fluent will be 3 steps forward). 

September 11, 2021, 05:40 

#4  
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Quote:
Finally, have you been using all the relevant optimizations of your compiler? What the profiler says about your bottlenecks? 

September 13, 2021, 11:46 

#5 
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Murat Can
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Thanks for the everyone responding my question.
Actually, my code is fairly simple. I only used rectengular grids in my code. While using it I also adapted the staggered grid and underrelaxation factors for the velocities which are solved using Gaussseidel Method. For the Pressure Equation I used Overrelaxed GaussSeidel Method which is regarding the SIMPLE method. Other than those, I haven't used another optimizations. Would you enlight me about it if there are any optimization left you think as an absence in my code? 

September 13, 2021, 11:56 

#6  
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Quote:
A basic aspect that I haven't even mentioned is caching, assuming that you have your stuff correctly accessed in memory. But, now that you mention that, note that algorithmically, GaussSeidel typically looses against AMG (yet, there are exceptions, but it's too much detail for the case here). In the end, there is so much to look at that, let's face it, unless you have spent a decent amount of time in optimizing your code, the expectation to be just faster than Fluent only because you are using a structured code is, don't take me wrong, kind of naive. 

September 13, 2021, 12:14 

#7  
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Murat Can
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I see there are topics I am unaware of. Thanks for the informations. I am going to optimize my code in my further studies.
regards, mcanoenen Quote:


September 13, 2021, 12:51 

#8  
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Arjun
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Quote:
Fluent uses AMG and that makes lots of difference. Even though you might converge the linear system to the same tolerance the AMG part of solver does make a lots of difference. (this i have noticed) The reason is that errors over longer range are corrected by AMG that you need for pressure equation. 

September 14, 2021, 12:16 

#9  
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Murat Can
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Thank you, it is as far as I noticed a multigrid technique. I was also of the idea that a solution methodology makes the difference more than of optimizaition issues in compliers of course when we don't mention about head to head competetion. Because I developed my solver using Matlab, I'm not allowed to optimise the complier as Matlab does that.
Those instabilities are getting stronger in my solver is seen in the picture below. that is because I use a nonnewtonian fluid. https://ibb.co/z7r3yh5 Quote:


September 14, 2021, 12:18 

#10  
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Quote:
EDIT: Just to be clear, you can't expect MATLAB to be competitive with anything compiled and reasonably coded, not to mention extremely optimized codes. Even if you use the exact same algorithms (which is not the case here) and a perfectly vectorized code, there would still be gaps here and there, stuff you don't even have control of in the first place when using MATLAB. 

September 14, 2021, 13:27 

#11  
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Continuum
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Quote:
Yes, totally agree. I ran a simple for loop grind test a few years back comparing Matlab compiled to an EXE with the GB embedded run time engine. It was about x500 slower than compiled C code for the same simple floating point operations. I had to do this to get the point across to the development group that just because it was a compiled EXE, it was not faster that running inside the Matlab environment. For your consideration: https://www.mathworks.com/help/compi...bruntime.html There are still many things to learn here though. To the OP, I would suggest exploring different solution methods on different conductance matrices. You could still do this in Matlab and compare general differences. For example, you could program semidirect methods such as conjugate gradient and compare these to a simple SOR based method. You need only create one pinch point to spread the Eigen values to slow SOR. Regards 

September 14, 2021, 15:15 

#12  
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Arjun
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All this is when both the codes are reducing the error to same levels with each iterations and both converge in same number of iterations. I am very sure this is not the case here, Fluent will converge smoother and would take less number of iterations. PS: Its not that fluent can't be beaten, have done that multiple times (even had their pressure coupled solver beaten from segregated algo) but it is not going to happen from a simplistic code. 

September 15, 2021, 09:19 
Residuals

#13 
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Murat Can
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Thanks for your answers,
May I ask another question? In the solution of a newtonian case, I also encounter a wawing residual graph which is not seen in Fluent solutions. Is it because I don't use a multigrid technique or it is definetely unnatural behaviour that I shouldn't encounter with such situation? 

September 15, 2021, 09:44 

#14 
Senior Member

Every minute detail of a numerical discretization and solution method can make a difference.
With this clear in mind, residuals falling in this way may be connected to the use of certain linear solvers, including SOR (or, maybe, especially, because that's strictly related to higher values of omega). When you use it for linear problems this happens because you "move too much" in the wrong direction when reducing the residual. Gradient descent and conjugate gradient kind of already solve this (take a look at the image here to see what I mean https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjugate_gradient_method). For non linear problems the residual you look at is not even linked to the linear system and there are a bunch of other reasons that could promote that behavior. However the linear system solver might still be one of them. EDIT: you are probably learning, so this is ok, but MATLAB has plenty of options to solve linear systems, so one possibility to check would be to then promote your code to use the MATLAB infrastructure for low level parts as this 

Tags 
cfd, discretization scheme, staggered grid, under relaxation factors 
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