CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > General Forums > Main CFD Forum

Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations

Register Blogs Community New Posts Updated Threads Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   May 21, 2001, 08:32
Default Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #1
Dr. Tsimento
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
For which Pressure Range are the Navier Stokes equations valid? Are they valid in mTorr range?

thanks in Advance Dr. Tsimento
  Reply With Quote

Old   May 22, 2001, 01:14
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #2
Ibrahim Mustafa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Navier Stokes Equations are independent of the pressure range. Please look at how those equations are derived.
  Reply With Quote

Old   May 22, 2001, 09:17
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #3
Jim Park
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
My texts derive the NS equations under the assumption of a continuum medium (individual molecular effects can be averaged). For a gas, this implies pressures greater than some minimum. The governing parameter is the Knudsen number, which relates the 'average' distance between molecules (the mean free path) to physical dimensions of the flow situation (duct sizes, boundary layer thickness, tube diameter, etc). Higher Knudsen numbers imply deviations from the assumption of continuum flow. Often, Kn < 0.01 is used as the cutoff. Low pressures and high mean free paths are correlated, so the pressure does matter.

For flows with large Mean Free Path, things get a bit more complicated. A nice basic understanding can be gained from the little book by Present, "Kinetic Theory of Gases", McGraw-Hill. It may be out of print. Check your institution's library for current texts.
  Reply With Quote

Old   May 22, 2001, 09:20
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #4
Jim Park
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Opps!

Forgot to change my e-mail address. This should be posted with the correct address.
  Reply With Quote

Old   May 22, 2001, 18:49
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #5
Barney
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Fundamental Equations of Fluid Mechanics (Hoffmann,Chiang,Siddiqui,Papadakis)

--------------------------------------------------

Navier-Stokes Kn <= 0.03

Modified Navier-Stokes 0.03 <= Kn <= 0.2 --------------------------------------------------

  Reply With Quote

Old   May 22, 2001, 21:02
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #6
Dave
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
You mean p ~ 1 mTorr = 1/760 Atm ?

Gas, liquid?

It seems probable NS eqs are good, but you should give T or density in addition, to know if continuum hipothesis is good. I recommend a Book in Kinetic Theory, or Gas Dynamics or some Fluid Dynamics text book if it explains NS eqs. derivation from scratch (I mean, not the Euler type derivation considering a small fluid box, which assume continuum, but from kinetic theory).

Cheers,

Dave
  Reply With Quote

Old   May 22, 2001, 21:07
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #7
Dave
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
PS. Additionally, for liquids you can have cavitation effects when pressure gets small (then P<Pvap, liquid becomes gas and bubbles appear, very common in boat propellers). This effect is not predicted obviously by NS equations...they need to be modified to account for that. I said. Cheers again,

Dave
  Reply With Quote

Old   May 23, 2001, 10:12
Default Re: Presure range of the Navier Stokes Equations
  #8
I. Dotsikas
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Hi,

Your pressure range should be above 10 Torr. From this range you can be sure that your fluid behaves accord the laws of continuum mechanics and you have a Mexwell distribution of the velocity molekules. If your pressure range is bolow this pressure, then your calculations are false. The more you deminish the pressure the wrongest are your calculations. In this range your modell equations (Navier Stokes) are wrong (not valid) and you must use something like Monte Carlo.

Donīt try to spring from the five meter tower to the children swimming pool. It will work (the computer gives you always an answer) but you might get hurt.

Jannis
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Viscous term in Navier Stokes Equations dandalf Main CFD Forum 8 December 13, 2017 16:27
4th order Runge-Kutte & uncoupled method Navier Stokes equations misabel Main CFD Forum 0 February 10, 2010 06:06
Navier Stokes equations in rotation frame..? vinayender Main CFD Forum 2 December 1, 2009 00:12
LBM Vs navier stokes equations in turbulent fluid flow modeling. sharad_shevate Main CFD Forum 0 August 3, 2009 01:25
Navier Stokes Equations J.J. Main CFD Forum 2 June 29, 2000 09:31


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 00:39.