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we_are_suffering November 8, 2001 07:25

John C Chien! Your holiday is over, please join

Axel Rohde November 8, 2001 08:37

Re: John C Chien! Your holiday is over, please joi
Personally, I don't miss the political debates that John and others used to engage in. I consider this a forum for scientists and engineers, not a chat room for 'wanna be' politicians. - And why are we suffering??? There are still plenty of bright people here who have lots to contribute.

An observer November 8, 2001 09:04

Please continue your holiday
In recent weeks the postings have - get this - actually been relevant to CFD and CFD related issues! People have been posting questions and getting real, direct answers instead of gibberish.

His absence has been most welcome and refreshing. The forum has been more of a pleasure to read ever since.

B.E. November 8, 2001 15:01

Who are suffering? Suffering what?
Forum is a lively place with different ideas. The person should tolerate others before expressing himself. Without any objection, you will go to extremes and have no new ideas. I received my education in China, an evironment with no tolerance of others, so the culture revolution happened. And you can find billions of people in China dreaming of a Chinese Nobel laureate (even in literature). That dream can never be true without a broad mind. For accademic research, we should enjoy other ideas, even they are wrong. John Chien got a lot of blame, just because he contribute more than others? I usually omit his tedious gossip, but also benefit a lot from his technical comments. Sometimes, John's comments on China is true. We cannot keep blind to the fact by kicking him out of the forum. That is not the rule of the game.


Martin Nilsson November 8, 2001 16:40

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
Even if John's comments on China were true, which they might well be, this forum is hardly the place the air them. This is a technical forum, not a political one. If he would have kept his comments CFD-related, he could/would have been one of the best contributors to this forum, but with all idiot comments he has made one just does not read his posts anymore and they just clutter the threads, apart from offending a lot of people.

Martin Nilsson

Axel Rohde November 8, 2001 16:49

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
The Internet is a HUGE place. There are all sorts of online fora, chat rooms, support groups, etc. You want to exercise your freedom and ideas, then pick the right place. This site was dedicated to discussions relating to Computational Fluid Dynamics, not to the political problems in China or anywhere else in the world.

we_are_suffering November 8, 2001 23:49

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
So we agree that John C Chien has contributed extensively on technical aspects involving CFD and we have derived benefit. Is it not wise to place a request before him to continue with 'CFD only' contributions and not so called political etc things. If he agrees, ok. If he doesn't, is it not open for us to decide to read only the CFD related contributions by John and pay no attention to the other things. Who will be benefited in CFD? John or us ? What are we missing? Look at his contributions in archives. Did not philosophers like Lagrange and others make political comments? Have we discarded their propositions because of that ? Let us request John. Let us now start posting 'John C Chien please come back'.

ecstatic November 9, 2001 08:06

good riddents!
Dear John,

If you read this, please stay in oblivion. We are delighted that you no longer contribute! I would like to say that it has been a plesure..........but I cant.

Adrin Gharakhani November 9, 2001 15:13

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
> Did not philosophers like Lagrange and others make political comments?

Oooooooh, I bet Lagrange is turning in his grave :))

I suppose anyone who contributes to science as much as the Lagranges of the world have would not only have the right to express their thoughts on non-science issues on this list but the common folks like me would more than welcome them to.

However, I seriously doubt _anyone_ on this list has done a minute fraction of what these giants of math and science have done for humanity.

Let's not disrespect these jewels of humanity with such trivial analogies and comparisons!

Adrin Gharakhani

kalyan November 9, 2001 15:55

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
It is not about how great any one is.

If you try to draw an analogy between CFD and something else, it should be pretty evident to everyone on this forum. If you can not show relevance to CFD, why call this the CFD forum. We might as well be discussing the existence of God here (a discussion which will get us no where even if people like Lagrange are involved in).

One line remarks, punch lines that are not necessarily CFD related are perhaps OK. Heated debate can indeed involve some humor. But if the whole discussion is shifting towards philosophy or something intangible, people should rethink before further extending the discussion. I would like to think that the "Scientific Method" applies to CFD and hence there is no place for personal opinions unless the reasons behind them are explained atleast at an intuitive level or substantiated by evidence. In this sense, it is tangible and one can have logical discussions with real conclusions.

Prateep Chatterjee November 9, 2001 18:05

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
I'd like to add my 2 cents:

for the past 2 years I have been accessing the cfd-online Fluent forum, and if I'm asked to point out one person who has been of tremendous help, with his observations (and mind you, general observations about CFD and not Fluent) and criticism of Fluent, I'd definitely vote for Jhon.

fact remains, NOBODY else (that includes the other CFD gurus of the Fluent forum) has been so consistent with understanding my problems with Fluent. maybe because I write crappy English .....

and, most others in the Fluent forum have not been able to give me a SINGLE useful piece of advise to this date. and of course, none of them have even tried humor .... at least jhon was always critical in a witty manner of Fluent's inability to do nothing right.

I vote for Jhon ..... at least continue to write in the Fluent forum ......

Tingguang November 11, 2001 17:41

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
I am also stand with John.

If you dislike him, just donot click his thread, why should ask the contributor out of your sight. That is not democratic. Besides, John is not intentionally write something to annoy you. He knows alot on background and future of CFD, still no anther person can take his position, even you can answer all the questions in this forum. There is something nobady has, that is a person at his age, still working in the programming frontier, and willing to share his experience. He can make a big money in providing help to those CFD related consulting company. That is a precious treasury to this forum. Who can take his vacancy? There is something beyond technical ideas. He worked in American way, and Americans are still taking the lead in CFD research.

There is an Chinese idiom, if you choose not to see the doctor, just because you dislike your disease, then you are completely wrong.

I could not understand this deporting action. That is not an accademic way. You deprived of others of learning experience, no matter right or wrong.


nobody November 11, 2001 23:46

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
In the cyber world, there are lots of places and people around discussing all kinds of issues and topics. This forum needs to be focused and technical. If people like John C Chien deviates from CFD and freely talk about anything on earth, sometimes even giving biased and libelous opinions, the furum will be even worse than a flea market that John used to talk about, it will be a rubbish dump. Any one wants a free rubbish dump, please? Yes, It is absolutely free, but do you want to come close to it?

AMR November 12, 2001 08:06

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
Its quite ironic that though everyones in favour of posting messages related only to the technical aspects of CFD we are still discussing John C Chien!

just curious November 12, 2001 08:30

Could someone provide a list of a few of his publications from journals or conference proceedings? I'd like to see his contributions outside of this forum.

Erich November 12, 2001 10:11

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
I find it even more ironic his supporters post their names, while his detractors utilize nicknames. I stand by John as well and agree with Tingguang.

Socrates was made to drink hemlock for making people think. In a similar sense, this happened to John.

Sure, he sometimes departed from the immediate topic at hand, but I think he wanted us to think beyond the tree to see the forest. As far as the politics, everyone has an axe to grind, but I for one will really miss his posts. Come back Dr. Chien.

Lars Ola Liavåg November 13, 2001 02:46

Re: Who are suffering? Suffering what?
Going back to Jonas' posting dated October 19, he merely states that from now on he will moderate the forum and delete postings that are out of line. Obviously, this action/restriction applies to all of us, whereas it doesn't prevent us from posting messages altogether. In other words, John has not been abolished from the flea market more than anyone else, and if his postings have been absent lately, it can either mean that he hasn't posted anything at all, or that he has been posting only crap.

Perhaps John feels that he has been treated badly, but certainly, Jonas has not treated him any worse than he has treated the rest of us. In my opinion, the only legitimate reason John has to feel hurt, is the many despising comments to his various postings, deserved or not. Truly, he said several times himself that the Internet is not a personal place, but what I'm saying is that John is not the only one with a responsibility here. I suspect that Jonas might agree with me.

I think it is high time to let this discussion end and give the forum a chance to recover. If John feels discouraged from joining the forum discussions in the future, it was only to be expected, and I doubt that stirring up a heated debate running in old tracks can change that. If, on the other hand, John has something relevant to contribute with (as he has done a million times before), he does actually still have the opportunity to do so, and I for one would certainly welcome it.

Lars Ola

christian November 13, 2001 10:10

lets move on!!!
I agree! I think all we are doing is boosting John's ego. He has contributed almost as much to the non-cfd comments by his absence as he did when he was here. Lets just get on with our science and ignore the rest.

please dont respond to this! But maybe Jonas could post a note at the top of the page telling us all to stop bitching about John. Or maybe Jonas could set up a 'John Chien Character Assasination Forum.' I would be willing to contribute to that.

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