# Open Challenge for Concept of Turbulence

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 June 2, 2003, 04:02 Open Challenge for Concept of Turbulence #1 K.K.J.Ranga Dinesh Guest   Posts: n/a Hi friends We have many approach like Reynold Average, DNS and LES for the Turbulence.But still we cannot find the more accurate solutions for the Turbulence by using the previous methods. Therefore my target is to create new accurate model to decribe the concept for Turbulence without using the Navier-Stokes equations. I think this problem valid for next 20 years or more. My open challenge is why dont you encourage to create the New accurate model to describe the concept for Turbulence. I'm very happy to collect your ideas to built this. Thanks Ranga Dinesh

 June 2, 2003, 06:28 Re: Open Challenge for Concept of Turbulence #2 Dr. Hrvoje Jasak Guest   Posts: n/a We have a perfect model - it's called the Navier-Stokes system! It covers all the conditions, it's well behaved and well understood; the only problem is that it's jolly expensive to solve for the problems of interest. The issue of turbulence modelling is simply way way of getting around the cost, i.e. in my opinion you have mis-formulated the challenge Hrv

 June 3, 2003, 13:41 Re: Open Challenge for Concept of Turbulence #3 Guus Jacobs Guest   Posts: n/a Even the N-S equations are not perfect (We don't know if its solution is well-posed (?), viscosity terms are modeled by kinetic gas theory, that fail in certain limiting cases), and besides computations being jolly expensive, the methodologies to compute the Navier-Stokes equations exactly are not developed to the point were a solution can be obtained easily for any configuration you wish. On the modeling part it seems to me that ignoring the N-S eq. (or least Newton's law) in a model is not going to lead to something consistent, and certainly not to a multi-purpose model. Guus

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