Beer - Foam formation

shogologo · May 4, 2009, 08:20

Hi CFD users,

I would like to use CFD to predict foaming formation in beer.
Does anyone have such kind of experience in this?
How would you model fluid "Beer"?
I would think of it as a fluid with dispersed CO2, but I have some doubts regarding physical properties to be modeled (density, viscosity, ecc...)

Thanks a lot for your kind suggestion.

gonski · May 5, 2009, 00:04

Hi,
I think SPH is the best choice for this kind of simulations. Try to search the works done by Paul cleary, Australia. I saw his results, but is not sure that they have been published or not. You may find some open sources on SPH.
I noticed that his movies are still available on a public place.
http://www.csiro.au/files/files/pers.asx
Cheers,
Gonski

shogologo · May 5, 2009, 02:30

Thanks for your suggestion.

I've taken a look at Dr. Paul Cleary work.
What I can't understand is if it can be applied as a prediction tool (and integrated in a cfd code) or is simply a Maya plug-in for realistic effects...

gonski · May 5, 2009, 02:46

I mean SPH (a method) may be used for your project. I never use this method. Thus, you have to investigate it yourself, or get hints from someone else. If I remember it correctly, Paul also considered gas as particles in simulating beer flow in a cup. I always trace the works regarding SPH used for particle-fluid systems. But so far, there are not so many papers. This really means something. Maybe there are some uncertainties in handling particle-fluid or bubble-fluid interactions.
Good luck!
Gonski

Rui · May 5, 2009, 05:13

I don't know if this is going to help. But there's this in the Fluent web site:
Do the Bubbles in a Glass of Guinness Beer Go Up or Down?
http://www.fluent.com/about/news/pr/pr5.htm
http://www.fluent.com/about/news/pr/pr5.pdf

shogologo · May 5, 2009, 10:08

Thaks Rui for your links.

I think these cases are "demonstrative" in order to get some small scale physical problems (bubbles - micron scale) and are sure interesting - so to speak maybe are developed for "commercial" purposes...

I think that foam formation could be related to this scale phenomena (bubbles rising) and hope to find a sort of model of prediction.

May 4, 2009, 08:20	Beer - Foam formation	#1
shogologo New Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 16	Hi CFD users, I would like to use CFD to predict foaming formation in beer. Does anyone have such kind of experience in this? How would you model fluid "Beer"? I would think of it as a fluid with dispersed CO2, but I have some doubts regarding physical properties to be modeled (density, viscosity, ecc...) Thanks a lot for your kind suggestion.

May 5, 2009, 02:46		#4
gonski New Member david.notay Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 20 Rep Power: 17	I mean SPH (a method) may be used for your project. I never use this method. Thus, you have to investigate it yourself, or get hints from someone else. If I remember it correctly, Paul also considered gas as particles in simulating beer flow in a cup. I always trace the works regarding SPH used for particle-fluid systems. But so far, there are not so many papers. This really means something. Maybe there are some uncertainties in handling particle-fluid or bubble-fluid interactions. Good luck! Gonski Last edited by gonski; May 5, 2009 at 06:27.

May 5, 2009, 05:13		#5
Rui Member Rui Igreja Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Aveiro Posts: 68 Blog Entries: 1 Rep Power: 17	I don't know if this is going to help. But there's this in the Fluent web site: Do the Bubbles in a Glass of Guinness Beer Go Up or Down? http://www.fluent.com/about/news/pr/pr5.htm http://www.fluent.com/about/news/pr/pr5.pdf __________________ Rui

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May 5, 2009, 00:04		#2
gonski New Member david.notay Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 20 Rep Power: 17	Hi, I think SPH is the best choice for this kind of simulations. Try to search the works done by Paul cleary, Australia. I saw his results, but is not sure that they have been published or not. You may find some open sources on SPH. I noticed that his movies are still available on a public place. http://www.csiro.au/files/files/pers.asx Cheers, Gonski

May 5, 2009, 02:30		#3
shogologo New Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 16	Thanks for your suggestion. I've taken a look at Dr. Paul Cleary work. What I can't understand is if it can be applied as a prediction tool (and integrated in a cfd code) or is simply a Maya plug-in for realistic effects...

May 5, 2009, 10:08		#6
shogologo New Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 17 Rep Power: 16	Thaks Rui for your links. I think these cases are "demonstrative" in order to get some small scale physical problems (bubbles - micron scale) and are sure interesting - so to speak maybe are developed for "commercial" purposes... I think that foam formation could be related to this scale phenomena (bubbles rising) and hope to find a sort of model of prediction.