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October 24, 2007, 09:46 
Hi!
location: /OpenFOAM/Ope

#1 
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Maka Mohu
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Hi!
location: /OpenFOAM/OpenFOAM1.3/src/LESmodels/incompressible/GenEddyVisc ; should also be checked in similar kind of models. (1) In ChannelOodles Ueq we absorb laminar viscous diffusion into: sgsModel>divB(U). As a result, B = R  2 nu avr(D); avr is average which in the code implementation corresponds to D. where, R = (avr(U U)  avr(U) avr(U)); D = symm(grad(U)) = (1/2)(grad(U)+transpose(grad(U))); (2) R = dev(R) + hyd(R); where, dev(R) = R  (1/3) trace(R) I; I is unit tensor; hyd(R) = (1/3) trace(R) I = (2/3) k I; (3) dev(R) is modeled as, dev(R) =  2 nuSgs dev(avr(D)); (4) using 3 in 2: R = (2/3) k I  2 nuSgs dev(avr(D)); (5) using 4 in 1: B = (2/3) k I  2 nuSgs dev(avr(D))  2 nu ( dev(avr(D)) + hyd(avr(D)); if we assume hyd(avr(D)) << dev(avr(D)) due to incompressibility (continuity) we have: B = (2/3) k I  2 nuEff dev(avr(D)); where, nuEff = nuSgs + nu; this is not the case in the implementation of GenEddyVisc::B() where nuSgs is used instead of nuEff [QUESTION 1]. (6) in GenEddyVisc::divB(volVectorField& U) div(B) =  fvc::laplacian(nuEff(), U)  fvc::div(nuEff()*dev(fvc::grad(U)().T())) if we leave a side the implicit (fvm) and explicit (fvc) implementation of terms for a moment the above form lead to: (I will drop the avr() for convenience and consistency with the code symbols) div(B) =  ( div( nuEff (grad(U)) + div (nuEff dev(transpose(grad(U))) ) B =  nuEff (dev(grad(U) + hyd(grad(U))) + dev(transpose(grad(U))) ) if we assume hyd(D) << dev(D) due to incompressibility (continuity) we have: B =  2 nuEff ( dev(D)); this is not consistent with (5) ((2/3) k I) is missing; [QUESTION 2] Best regards, Maka 

October 24, 2007, 10:14 
>
B currently returns the

#2 
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> [QUESTION 1]
B currently returns the subgrid stress generated by the subgrid turbulence and does not include the laminar stress. divB returns the divergence of subgrid stress including the laminar stress for convenience and efficiency but as you say not consistency. The options to make these more consistent would be to change the name of either B or divB (any suggestions?) or include the laminar stress in B, I am happy with either option. > [QUESTION 2]: For numerical reasons the ((2/3) k I) is subsumed into the pressure gradient as is common practice also in RANS modelling so again divB is deliberately inconsistent with B so perhaps divB should be renamed to make this clear. 

October 24, 2007, 11:17 
If B() name was changed to R()

#3 
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Maka Mohu
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If B() name was changed to R(). and a comment is added to divB() to point out that it is:
divB() = div(B)  div((2/3) k I)] where the pressure is redefined , then both inconsistencies are removed. Also this will be consistent with B definition in description part of model header files (B = 2/3*k*I  2*nuEff*dev(D)). Thanks for your explanations. Best regards, Maka. 

October 24, 2007, 11:24 
sorry, an after thought. divB

#4 
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Maka Mohu
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sorry, an after thought. divB can be renamed to somethings like divDevB (Dev for deviatoric) since this is what it is. Have a nice day!
Best regards, Maka. 

October 24, 2007, 11:28 
Currently we use B to refer to

#5 
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Currently we use B to refer to the subgrid stress and R the Reynolds stress which in LES runs is obtained by averaging the velocity fluctuations.
divDevB is as intersting idea but is this clarification and hence additional naming complexity necessary/useful? Perhaps it could be added as a comment. 

October 24, 2007, 11:32 
in that case no need to rename

#6 
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Maka Mohu
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in that case no need to rename B() but rather change its definition to use nuEff instead of nuSgs.
Best regards, Maka. 

October 24, 2007, 11:37 
In subgrid stress models B is

#7 
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In subgrid stress models B is the stress corresponding to subgrid turbulence and does not include the laminar stress so defining B from eddy viscosity models to include it would be inconsistent. I think we need a naming convention for the subgrid stress including the laminar contribution.


October 24, 2007, 11:49 
Total subgrid stress vs. turb

#8 
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Gavin Tabor
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Total subgrid stress vs. turbulent subgrid stress? In a manner of speaking the molecular viscosity is subgridscale. Maybe B() for the latter and Beff() for the former (or something similar)
Gavin 

October 24, 2007, 11:56 
Yes I agree, the laminar stres

#9 
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Yes I agree, the laminar stress is subgrid and so there is no reason why it should not be included in the definition of subgrid stress used by the momentum equation. I think Beff is a good idea, at least it is consistent with nuSgs and nuEff. Thanks for the thought.


March 12, 2008, 12:11 
k() formulation in Smagorinsky

#10 
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Maka Mohu
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k() formulation in Smagorinsky (I did not check the rest of the models). The comment follows equation (23) in Fureby and Tabor 1997 (Theor. Comp. FD.) but the implementation uses the dev(D) instead of D. In incompressibel flow one would expect the D ~ dev(D) since hyd(D)<<dev(D) (continuity) BUT is there a specific reason for insisting on dev(D) or it is just a typing mistake? Thanks.
The comment in .H file: //k = (2*ck/ce)*delta^2*D^2 The implementation. // Return SGS kinetic energy // calculated from the given velocity gradient tmp<volscalarfield> k(const tmp<voltensorfield>& gradU) const { return (2.0*ck_/ce_)*sqr(delta())*magSqr(dev(symm(gradU))); } 

March 12, 2008, 12:27 
D should be deviatoric for inc

#11 
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D should be deviatoric for incompressible but numerics is not exact and div(U) != 0 exactly although div(phi) is zero to within solver tolerance. Using dev(D) ensures it deviatoric irrespective of errors in div(U).


February 18, 2009, 11:54 
oneEqEddy SGS model V1.5
If

#12 
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Maka Mohu
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oneEqEddy SGS model V1.5
If we look at the form of production term in the k eq. (1) G = B:D ,where : is double inner product. following the above suggestion that D should always be dev(D) for incompressible flow leads to, (2) G=B:dev(D) (3) B = (2/3) k I  2 nuSgs dev(D). putting 3 into 2, (4) G =  (2/3) k I:dev(D) + 2 nuSgs dev(D):dev(D) The implementation of G reads volScalarField G = 2.0*nuSgs_*magSqr(symm(gradU)); The first part of G in (4) is missing and the second part is implemented using D instead of dev(D). Is such deviation meant intensionally to save computational effort? Thanks. Best regards, Maka. 

February 18, 2009, 12:04 
For incompressible flow I:dev(

#13 
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For incompressible flow I:dev(D) = tr(D) = 0 and so dev(D) = D. However numerically on a collocated mesh this is not exactly true and there will be some difference between using D and dev(D) but it is likely to be small. Use whichever you prefer.
H 

September 1, 2010, 07:11 

#14  
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Hallo dear FOAMers!
Quote:
Best regards, Andrey 

October 7, 2010, 03:50 

#15 
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Andrea Petronio
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Hi,
just to make it clear: 2/3 k I is an isotropic tensor just as p, so it's fine to include it in a modified pressure (Pope pag. 581): P = p+ 2/3 k I being k he residual kinetic energy. I'm still not gettin why in the GenEddyVisc function divDevBeff() is added the term  fvc::div ( nuEff * dev(div^T(U) ) maybe is it a correction term due to numerical reasons? But if it is so, since is explicitly computed, i.e. computed using the previous field, that U should be properly resolved and divergence free, there are comments on this or reference? Thanks Last edited by andrea; October 7, 2010 at 09:47. 

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