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pisoFoam with kepsilon turb blows up  Some questions 

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December 10, 2012, 09:47 

#21 
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Hello,
I have been working on the mesh in order to get rid of the nonorthogonal elements. Right now I only have bottom up generated tetra mesh (no prism layers), but that should hold to at least get everything up and running if I am not mistaken. The quality of the mesh should be good. In ICEM, the lowest quality is something around 0.22. However, upon performing a mesh check using checkMesh allTopology allGeometry, I get a failed check on the determinants Also, I am still trying to find a way to get the fixed outlet velocity working. Any advice on this is, still, greatly appreciated. Kind regards. Code:
Checking geometry... Overall domain bounding box (12 9.25668e06 0.267927) (6.94232 8.58 7.74) Mesh (nonempty, nonwedge) directions (1 1 1) Mesh (nonempty) directions (1 1 1) Boundary openness (3.79415e17 2.46278e16 3.39898e16) OK. Max cell openness = 2.96999e16 OK. Max aspect ratio = 7.49919 OK. Minumum face area = 9.23367e06. Maximum face area = 0.264079. Face area magnitudes OK. Min volume = 2.48245e08. Max volume = 0.0409205. Total volume = 1220.37. Cell volumes OK. Mesh nonorthogonality Max: 62.5417 average: 16.4373 Nonorthogonality check OK. Face pyramids OK. Max skewness = 0.920117 OK. Coupled point location match (average 0) OK. Face tets OK. Min/max edge length = 0.00337765 0.890872 OK. All angles in faces OK. All face flatness OK. Cell determinant (wellposedness) : minimum: 0 average: 1.60163 ***Cells with small determinant found, number of cells: 2167 <<Writing 2167 underdetermined cells to set underdeterminedCells Concave cell check OK. Failed 1 mesh checks. End 

December 10, 2012, 09:50 

#22 
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Zifei Yin
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***Cells with small determinant found, number of cells: 2167
You should check this in ICEM and fix them 

December 10, 2012, 11:55 

#23 
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That is what I have done already. The quality is at least 0.2 for all tetras. If I check for determinant only, it even says the determinant is 1 everywhere. However, the % behind it less than 100%, I am curious what's up with the remaining 8%... (see attachments)


December 13, 2012, 03:44 

#24 
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It seems I got things up and running now, including the kepsilon model. Due to some high velocities through small cells I seem to be getting very high (bounded) values for epsilon locally. These are of the size 1e5 and for some reason they do not appear for every timestep, but only every now and then. Even more weird is that these bounded epsilon also show a decreasing behavior from time to time and k is rarely bounded.
Upon checking the results in paraview, the high values are always there, even if there is no reported bounding epsilon in the log file. I have terminated my simulation for now and I am going to discuss this behavior with a colleague of mine. It would be nice to hear some opinions on this from others with more knowledge on this subject as well. Please see the attached picture and fragment of my log file. Keeping in mind that I am actually reaching good convergence, would it be wise to continue on this simulation or is it better to start over and find a way to totally eliminate the bounded variables? Is there a way to keep going with the current simulation and eliminate this behavior? Code:
Courant Number mean: 9.55372e05 max: 0.219991 Time = 0.13315 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73373e07, Final residual = 3.20221e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22739e06, Final residual = 1.4288e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.30619e05, Final residual = 6.47912e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.6486e08, Final residual = 8.6486e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.000202456, Final residual = 1.80145e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.70531e05, Final residual = 2.34654e08, No Iterations 6 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 6.42526e14, global = 3.46809e15, cumulative = 4.2928e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 4.09015e06, Final residual = 2.69331e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 6.81026e07, Final residual = 6.59748e10, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.7721e14, global = 4.55999e15, cumulative = 4.29325e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.44307e07, Final residual = 1.03114e10, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 4.03171e08, Final residual = 3.46799e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.59999e14, global = 4.04968e15, cumulative = 4.29366e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.17086e08, Final residual = 6.23799e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 9.4489e09, Final residual = 9.74704e13, No Iterations 8 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.43245e14, global = 4.13848e15, cumulative = 4.29407e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.65759e07, Final residual = 1.47193e11, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 0.00553507 max: 103118 average: 39.5082 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.35119e06, Final residual = 5.30976e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63036.2 s ClockTime = 64522 s ... Some timesteps without bounding epsilon follow. I had to cut them off to stay within the max character limit ... Courant Number mean: 9.55379e05 max: 0.220011 Time = 0.13325 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73169e07, Final residual = 3.24129e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22689e06, Final residual = 1.43334e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.30599e05, Final residual = 6.52675e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.64956e08, Final residual = 8.64956e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.000201444, Final residual = 1.60844e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.61183e05, Final residual = 9.24127e09, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 5.61681e14, global = 2.98193e15, cumulative = 4.30777e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.86619e06, Final residual = 2.34723e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 6.35014e07, Final residual = 4.72341e10, No Iterations 6 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.67156e14, global = 3.68224e15, cumulative = 4.30814e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.34363e07, Final residual = 8.48447e11, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.58766e08, Final residual = 2.88988e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.59304e14, global = 3.55608e15, cumulative = 4.30849e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.06668e08, Final residual = 5.16055e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 8.27392e09, Final residual = 8.58417e13, No Iterations 8 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.31626e14, global = 3.55087e15, cumulative = 4.30885e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.65268e07, Final residual = 1.45611e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.3485e06, Final residual = 5.63431e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63230.5 s ClockTime = 64720 s Courant Number mean: 9.5538e05 max: 0.220013 Time = 0.13326 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73155e07, Final residual = 3.24443e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22686e06, Final residual = 1.43377e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.30598e05, Final residual = 6.53214e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.64965e08, Final residual = 8.64965e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.000206822, Final residual = 1.82456e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.9564e05, Final residual = 1.68898e08, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 6.30398e14, global = 3.45633e15, cumulative = 4.30919e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 4.34841e06, Final residual = 3.49822e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 7.17663e07, Final residual = 4.03597e10, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.85699e14, global = 4.27903e15, cumulative = 4.30962e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.53179e07, Final residual = 1.33318e10, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 4.03591e08, Final residual = 3.8995e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.77545e14, global = 3.73605e15, cumulative = 4.31e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.16859e08, Final residual = 5.82896e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 9.22654e09, Final residual = 5.36028e13, No Iterations 9 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.40814e14, global = 3.61683e15, cumulative = 4.31036e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.6522e07, Final residual = 1.45454e11, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 0.0146594 max: 103133 average: 39.5529 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.34824e06, Final residual = 5.6666e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63252.2 s ClockTime = 64743 s Courant Number mean: 9.55381e05 max: 0.220015 Time = 0.13327 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73124e07, Final residual = 3.24828e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22681e06, Final residual = 1.43556e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.30595e05, Final residual = 6.53373e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.64974e08, Final residual = 8.64974e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.00020463, Final residual = 1.80884e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.84468e05, Final residual = 1.89107e08, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 6.12578e14, global = 3.17955e15, cumulative = 4.31067e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 4.26351e06, Final residual = 3.66951e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 7.33175e07, Final residual = 5.91502e10, No Iterations 6 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.61081e14, global = 4.4349e15, cumulative = 4.31112e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.55993e07, Final residual = 6.94e11, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 4.29368e08, Final residual = 3.61959e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.54608e14, global = 3.98236e15, cumulative = 4.31152e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.19962e08, Final residual = 6.20707e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 9.62159e09, Final residual = 5.64534e13, No Iterations 9 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.27451e14, global = 3.89695e15, cumulative = 4.31191e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.65171e07, Final residual = 1.45298e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.34797e06, Final residual = 5.70079e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63272 s ClockTime = 64764 s Courant Number mean: 9.55381e05 max: 0.220017 Time = 0.13328 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73101e07, Final residual = 3.25277e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22672e06, Final residual = 1.43649e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.30592e05, Final residual = 6.53624e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.64984e08, Final residual = 8.64984e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.000199448, Final residual = 1.54254e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.50483e05, Final residual = 1.89519e08, No Iterations 6 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 6.20065e14, global = 3.52836e15, cumulative = 4.31226e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.64174e06, Final residual = 2.16334e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 6.05503e07, Final residual = 2.69169e10, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.72243e14, global = 4.49821e15, cumulative = 4.31271e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.28108e07, Final residual = 8.60518e11, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.53406e08, Final residual = 2.89977e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.67016e14, global = 4.02559e15, cumulative = 4.31311e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.03696e08, Final residual = 6.77484e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 9.30403e09, Final residual = 5.6405e13, No Iterations 9 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.33453e14, global = 3.93433e15, cumulative = 4.3135e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.65122e07, Final residual = 1.45141e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.3477e06, Final residual = 5.73409e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63293.2 s ClockTime = 64786 s Courant Number mean: 9.55382e05 max: 0.220019 Time = 0.13329 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73085e07, Final residual = 3.25652e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22669e06, Final residual = 1.43745e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.3059e05, Final residual = 6.53576e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.64994e08, Final residual = 8.64994e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.000203005, Final residual = 1.79916e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.68167e05, Final residual = 2.67205e08, No Iterations 6 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 6.5267e14, global = 3.79928e15, cumulative = 4.31388e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.97084e06, Final residual = 2.6292e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 6.54607e07, Final residual = 6.21318e10, No Iterations 6 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.91615e14, global = 4.95388e15, cumulative = 4.31438e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.37601e07, Final residual = 9.80408e11, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.82828e08, Final residual = 2.98687e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.58331e14, global = 4.6095e15, cumulative = 4.31484e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.08881e08, Final residual = 7.40095e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.00421e08, Final residual = 8.25128e13, No Iterations 8 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.31451e14, global = 4.21148e15, cumulative = 4.31526e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.65074e07, Final residual = 1.44984e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.34743e06, Final residual = 5.76752e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63313.1 s ClockTime = 64807 s Courant Number mean: 9.55383e05 max: 0.220021 Time = 0.1333 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 6.73067e07, Final residual = 3.25873e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.22662e06, Final residual = 1.4377e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 1.30587e05, Final residual = 6.53616e10, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for alpha1, Initial residual = 8.65003e08, Final residual = 8.65003e08, No Iterations 0 Solid phase fraction = 4.71282e06 Min(alpha1) = 0 Max(alpha1) = 0.4 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 0.000203332, Final residual = 1.55745e07, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 2.68662e05, Final residual = 2.01764e08, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 6.53667e14, global = 4.25321e15, cumulative = 4.31569e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.94813e06, Final residual = 2.79355e09, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 6.43015e07, Final residual = 2.92496e10, No Iterations 7 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.86857e14, global = 4.21542e15, cumulative = 4.31611e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.36678e07, Final residual = 9.05711e11, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 3.68273e08, Final residual = 2.84291e11, No Iterations 5 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.78365e14, global = 4.25555e15, cumulative = 4.31653e11 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 1.08069e08, Final residual = 6.99844e12, No Iterations 8 GAMG: Solving for p_rgh, Initial residual = 9.87503e09, Final residual = 7.91717e13, No Iterations 8 diagonal: Solving for rho, Initial residual = 0, Final residual = 0, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 3.48573e14, global = 4.24741e15, cumulative = 4.31696e11 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.65025e07, Final residual = 1.44828e11, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1.34717e06, Final residual = 5.80109e10, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 63335.1 s ClockTime = 64831 s 

December 13, 2012, 11:50 

#25 
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Aathavan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
Rep Power: 14 
Hi Heroic,
I hope you know that bounding is an indignation of the corresponding values are not in the limit. you can fix this changing your epsilon scheme in system folder. which scheme you are using for epsilon, try to use upwind scheme then it will be fine. I think after some reasonable time step you can change your schemes. thanks, Aadhavan Last edited by Aadhavan; December 15, 2012 at 09:10. 

December 17, 2012, 03:04 

#26 
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Hi Aadhavan,
For k and epsilon I am using upwind schemes as you stated. In contrast to the values I had before, I found out I had to increase the values outside of the pipe by a lot in order to increase the stability. I am aware of the fact I bounded variables are there in order to prevent the system from blowing up while actually not being correct variables. It seems strange to me that even k and epsilon still reach convergence though. Same goes for the fact that only 1 out of 510 timesteps is bounded, while the others are not. Any idea what the reason could be for this? Kind regards. 

December 17, 2012, 04:34 

#27 
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Aathavan
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 70
Rep Power: 14 
Hi Heroic,
Gut, if you didnt get bounding error after some time step then its fine, you no need to worry about it, simply go ahead. Thanks, Aadhavan 

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