# "Glitches" in k and omega

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 January 20, 2013, 15:54 "Glitches" in k and omega #1 Member   Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 14 Hi, I am simulating the flow in a channel using a modified simpleFoam and the k-omega-SST model. Every now and then, the solver can't solve for k or omega and their values just explode. Sometimes the simulation recovers from that state within a few hundred timesteps, sometimes it doesn't. Here is a sample output for a normal timestep and a problematic one: Code: ```Time = 4180 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.002454946797335455, Final residual = 2.118201461652769e-08, No Iterations 6 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.001256415853039685, Final residual = 1.037692770489594e-08, No Iterations 6 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 0.003283733002456741, Final residual = 2.981279918575045e-09, No Iterations 7 GAMG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.02201556239585755, Final residual = 1.282423077370965e-07, No Iterations 16 GAMG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.008240116175764454, Final residual = 8.139580885669834e-08, No Iterations 12 time step continuity errors : sum local = 1.531473863748542e-06, global = -7.156743507425181e-15, cumulative = -1.45393053629309e-12 DILUPBiCG: Solving for omega, Initial residual = 8.626697921486998e-06, Final residual = 8.156673087094997e-11, No Iterations 5 bounding omega, min: -877.5914029924204 max: 9963507.932995282 average: 104575.2141635721 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.003874747711704138, Final residual = 5.92104344143439e-09, No Iterations 7 bounding k, min: -0.0001332252168376633 max: 0.05713142005592581 average: 0.003205000635194682 S_PRO= 4.802711559863782e-06W/K S_PRO,D= 2.028083115231596e-06W/K S_PRO,D'= 2.774628444632186e-06W/K S_PRO,C= 0W/K S_PRO,C'= 0W/K ExecutionTime = 1411.6 s ClockTime = 1434 s Time = 4181 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.002460388678483852, Final residual = 9.17931475513598e-10, No Iterations 7 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.001256478971499746, Final residual = 1.16998685088727e-08, No Iterations 6 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uz, Initial residual = 0.003284937635407826, Final residual = 2.670988173110144e-08, No Iterations 5 GAMG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.02191503352549878, Final residual = 1.226826542535508e-07, No Iterations 16 GAMG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.008195653865403671, Final residual = 7.521263032788438e-08, No Iterations 12 time step continuity errors : sum local = 1.415562053229773e-06, global = 1.775764236376485e-15, cumulative = -1.452154772056713e-12 DILUPBiCG: Solving for omega, Initial residual = 8.719510075834142e-06, Final residual = 4808428634545.903, No Iterations 1001 bounding omega, min: -2.164755144508585e+21 max: 3.598949521217116e+21 average: 1.308210762796994e+17 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.3147840750606549, Final residual = 1.995451694496316e-16, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: -4.418770186074049e-05 max: 0.05208677946321078 average: 0.001778830031969948 S_PRO= 1262457298.893128W/K S_PRO,D= 2.02929169556324e-06W/K S_PRO,D'= 1262457298.893126W/K S_PRO,C= 0W/K S_PRO,C'= 0W/K ExecutionTime = 1448.59 s ClockTime = 1471 s``` I changed some values in my fvSolution during this simulation, but not when this behavior occured. My fvSchemes for k and omega: Code: ```ddtSchemes { default steadyState; } gradSchemes { default cellLimited Gauss linear 1; } divSchemes { default Gauss linear; div(phi,U) Gauss limitedLinearV 1; div(phi,T) Gauss upwind; } laplacianSchemes { default Gauss linear limited 0.333; } interpolationSchemes { default linear; } snGradSchemes { default limited 0.333; } fluxRequired { default no; p; }``` relTol for k and omega is 1e-5, relaxationFactors are 0.7 (I had them as low as 0.3, but glitches occured as well) Has anyone some advice for me regarding what could be wrong and what I could do about this? Regards Christoph

 January 21, 2013, 14:08 #2 Member   Eric Robertson Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 95 Rep Power: 13 Try dropping your relaxation factor for omega and/or k to something less than 0.1, i.e. 0.05 or so. I have recently run a kOmegaSST sim on a submarine and would have similar issues with the bounding omega exploding. Dropping the relaxation to 0.05 fixed it for me.

 January 21, 2013, 18:00 #3 Senior Member   Daniel P. Combest Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Louis, USA Posts: 621 Rep Power: 0 Also, you have your default divScheme set to Gauss linear...which is unbounded. You might want to explicitly set the divScheme for your turbulence parameters to something bounded.

 January 22, 2013, 05:31 #4 Member   Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 14 Thanks to both of you, I will have to try a number of different things now. A relaxation factor of 0.1 or even 0.05 sounds really low, but I'll give it a shot if all else fails. I tried a limited scheme: Code: `div(phi,omega) Gauss limitedLinear 0 1e9;` which gave me a floating point exception when I restarted the simulation with this scheme enabled, but enabling it afterwards worked (odd!?) I am currently using a smooth solver, which also seems to run without glithces in k and omega but it's slower than before.

 January 22, 2013, 16:08 #5 Senior Member   Daniel P. Combest Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Louis, USA Posts: 621 Rep Power: 0 I personally have an affinity to the upwind family. For 2.1.x, you could try Code: `div(phi,omega) Gauss linearUpwind grad(omega);` with Code: `grad(omega) cellLimited leastSquares 1.0;` and then you can choose from the limiters Code: ```cellMDLimited cellLimited faceMDLimited faceLimited``` where these are arranged in order or least diffuse to most diffuse (citation http://www.cfd-online.com/Forums/ope...tml#post281280). I like them because they are a little dissipative and help when finding a solution. Also, believe I read in some ANSYS documentation that limiters can lead to stalling of the solution (maybe only in FLUENT?), so be aware of that. Yanagi likes this.

 January 23, 2013, 05:16 #6 Member   Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 14 I have OF 2.0.1 here, but I can use your suggestion anyway (at least OF didn't complain). These are my fvSchemes now: Code: ```gradSchemes { default cellLimited Gauss linear 1; grad(omega) cellLimited leastSquares 1.0; } divSchemes { default Gauss linear; div(phi,U) Gauss limitedLinearV 1; div(phi,omega) Gauss linearUpwind grad(omega); }``` Let's see if it blows up again!

 January 24, 2013, 13:51 #7 Member   Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 45 Rep Power: 14 Well, I'm not seeing any problems regarding the glitches I described, but as they only show up occasionally I can't be sure that the schemes you suggested actually did the trick. One problem though: I have cyclic boundaries and it seems that the suggested schemes have amplified oscillations I already had in my solution.

 January 28, 2013, 10:33 #8 Senior Member   Daniel P. Combest Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: St. Louis, USA Posts: 621 Rep Power: 0 you're still using Gauss linear as a default scheme for some of your variables. This linear scheme may be the source of your errors. I would change your default scheme to none, run your solver and then set each one of the schemes manually in your fvSchemes dictionary.

January 29, 2013, 03:57
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by chegdan you're still using Gauss linear as a default scheme for some of your variables. This linear scheme may be the source of your errors.
Are you now referring to the glitches I described in the first post or to the oscillations I mentioned in my latest post? However, I now have all schemes set manually, but I have no experience regarding what might be suitable or not.