CFD Online Logo CFD Online URL
www.cfd-online.com
[Sponsors]
Home > Forums > Software User Forums > OpenFOAM > OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD

Interfoam - sump pump modelling

Register Blogs Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old   September 23, 2013, 06:30
Default Interfoam - sump pump modelling
  #1
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
I'm trying to model a water sump using Interfoam. Attached is the link to my model:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9bhhbvj5n1yhov1/tboAYJyAg_

I've got the model to run until about 0.8 or 1.6s before crashing. I think it occurs when the water plunges down to the sump.

The model can also run without utilizing setfields, in most situations.

Can anyone please help check whether my boundary conditions are alright? I've tried numerous iterations, but have so far got a viable solution.

Thanks!
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 23, 2013, 13:46
Default
  #2
Super Moderator
 
Tobi's Avatar
 
Tobias Holzmann
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tussenhausen
Posts: 2,705
Blog Entries: 6
Rep Power: 51
Tobi has a spectacular aura aboutTobi has a spectacular aura aboutTobi has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via ICQ to Tobi Send a message via Skype™ to Tobi
Hi,


1. polyMesh/boundary
Code:
inlet, outlet, atmosphere = patch not wall
2. 0/files
Code:
U_outlet why fixed?
alpha_outlet outlet inlet value = 1? 
.
.
.
?

Regards
Tobi
Tobi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 24, 2013, 02:42
Default
  #3
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
Hi Tobi,

Thanks! Model is running fine!
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 24, 2013, 07:03
Default
  #4
Super Moderator
 
Tobi's Avatar
 
Tobias Holzmann
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tussenhausen
Posts: 2,705
Blog Entries: 6
Rep Power: 51
Tobi has a spectacular aura aboutTobi has a spectacular aura aboutTobi has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via ICQ to Tobi Send a message via Skype™ to Tobi
Hi,

what did you change?
Tobi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 24, 2013, 21:58
Default
  #5
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
alpha 1:

outlet : inletoutlet 0

p_rgh:

fixedFluxPressure uniform 0 for all except inlet

U outlet is specified because I'm trying to model a pump. Do you have any suggestions?
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 25, 2013, 01:55
Default
  #6
New Member
 
Franz Jacobsen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 16
Franz_J is on a distinguished road
Hi
you could try FlowRateInletVelocity
I noticed that the level of refinement around pump inlet is probably too course to model swirl
cheers
Franz
Franz_J is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 25, 2013, 02:01
Default
  #7
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
Hi Franz!

Thanks! Yup I'm running a model with a refined mesh. Any way to make it solve faster?
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 25, 2013, 02:19
Default
  #8
New Member
 
Franz Jacobsen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 16
Franz_J is on a distinguished road
you can eliminate the upstream channels, I don't think it's necessary for what u want to do
Franz_J is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 25, 2013, 02:27
Default
  #9
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
ok i'll try that too.

One more thing, I've tried the different filters (contour, threshold, smoothing, etc.) to capture the free surface vortex, but so far no luck.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR3rulCQS08

was the video you posted post-processed by Paraview or Blender? How many cells were you using too?

Thanks!
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 25, 2013, 03:45
Default
  #10
New Member
 
Franz Jacobsen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 16
Franz_J is on a distinguished road
that video was created with paraview while this one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqtNdocCaJo
was created using blender, and has about 1M cells. Glad someone has watched the videos :-)
Franz_J is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 25, 2013, 04:19
Default
  #11
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
Those videos are exactly what I want Any tips on how to do it on paraview, if not blender?
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 28, 2013, 01:03
Default
  #12
New Member
 
Franz Jacobsen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 16
Franz_J is on a distinguished road
Hi, excuse my late reply, I ran your model with some modifications, as mentioned above. The outlet is sucking in air, as shown in the attachment . Vortices would probably be obscured by the disturbance caused by the cascade. This common type of wet well pump station would typically feature additional physical elements in the arrangement, to mitigate these undesirable flow characteristics.
The videos from paraview are created by pressing "Save Animation" in the file menu.
cheers
Franz
Attached Images
File Type: jpg PumpTest_b.jpg (99.4 KB, 140 views)
File Type: jpg PumpTest_a.jpg (98.7 KB, 119 views)
Franz_J is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 28, 2013, 03:37
Default
  #13
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
Hi Franz,

Thanks for taking the time to run the model.

Speaking of which, how long did you took? And what was your setup (mesh size, and computer specs?)

Also, did you used 'contours' filter to produce the left side picture? perhaps with 'smoothing'? or is it 'threshold'?

And for the import in blender, was it done in x3d? and I have to individually import each time steps?

Appreciate the help!
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 29, 2013, 06:28
Default
  #14
New Member
 
Franz Jacobsen
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 16
Franz_J is on a distinguished road
I used the Helyx-OS GUI for setting up the model and running it, as well as playing around with mesh settings. It did not take long.
I had to make some assumptions regarding flow rate that would result in vortices, using engineering formula.
The water surface is produced using the contours filter, give it a try.
You can also import to blender using scripting.
The model is still too basic for accurate assessment but adequate to show qualitatively that this pump station layout would contribute to pump failure in a short time.
Franz_J is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 29, 2013, 07:39
Default
  #15
Super Moderator
 
Tobi's Avatar
 
Tobias Holzmann
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Tussenhausen
Posts: 2,705
Blog Entries: 6
Rep Power: 51
Tobi has a spectacular aura aboutTobi has a spectacular aura aboutTobi has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via ICQ to Tobi Send a message via Skype™ to Tobi
Hey Franz,

can you explain or give more informations due to paraview -> scripting -> blender?
Tobi is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   September 29, 2013, 22:22
Default
  #16
New Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 23
Rep Power: 13
cfdan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franz_J View Post
I used the Helyx-OS GUI for setting up the model and running it, as well as playing around with mesh settings. It did not take long.
I had to make some assumptions regarding flow rate that would result in vortices, using engineering formula.
The water surface is produced using the contours filter, give it a try.
You can also import to blender using scripting.
The model is still too basic for accurate assessment but adequate to show qualitatively that this pump station layout would contribute to pump failure in a short time.
Hi Franz,

Thanks for the information.

I'm running a case with about 1.5 million cells, parallel with 2 cores.
Still taking me at least a day to develop a closed loop system. By close loop, I mean the water reaching the 'plunging' stage and at the same time being pumped out. I've set the 2 CFL conditions to 1.0 and 0.5.

I understand that to create the vortices the initial levels of the water should not be too high from the bellmouth, and the suction from the pumps have to be strong enough to create them. Am I missing anything?

I've been able to create similar illustrations using 'contour' filter, but I am also interested in the blender scripting too, if you are willing to share. Thanks!
cfdan is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   June 20, 2014, 03:07
Default
  #17
New Member
 
Zhao Bing
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 12
bzhao is on a distinguished road
Hi cfdan,

I am working on similar problem, but still having some trouble with BCs. Would you mind to share a working copy of your model. The dropbox files seem have been removed.

Thanks!
bzhao is offline   Reply With Quote

Old   October 12, 2021, 13:04
Default
  #18
Member
 
Munaf
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 38
Rep Power: 6
mwmalkawi is on a distinguished road
Hi Cfdan


I am doing a similar to the sump pump model you did and am facing issues most probably with my boundary conditions i am wondering if it is possible to share the case file please as am struggling for some time



many thanks
mwmalkawi is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply

Tags
interfoam, sump, water

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blood Damage Modelling via Particle Tracking in a Centrifugal Heart Pump scatman CFX 7 January 8, 2018 01:59
Low temperatures modelling heat pump with source terms stahl FLUENT 0 November 26, 2010 17:43
pump meshing inside the sump ashwin FLUENT 0 March 16, 2007 07:57
Pump in a sump meshing Ashwin C Punjabi FLUENT 0 March 13, 2007 00:52
jet pump modelling mathews FLUENT 0 January 31, 2007 06:29


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 00:24.