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Old   December 11, 2016, 01:44
Default VOF model + mixture model + RAS or LES model
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ali
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Dear All,
I need a solver including
- VOF model.
- turbulence model of RSM(LRR) or LES.
- mixture model or Eulerian-Eulerian model.
So far I didn't find it !

But I found a solver for each of the above:
- VOF model: interFoam
- mixture model or Eulerian-Eulerian model: driftFluxFoam or twoPhaseEulerFoam
I don't know how to combine them?!

Please help me.

Thanks in advance,
Ali
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Old   December 11, 2016, 02:17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
Dear All,
I need a solver including
- VOF model.
- turbulence model of RSM(LRR) or LES.
- mixture model or Eulerian-Eulerian model.
So far I didn't find it !

But I found a solver for each of the above:
- VOF model: interFoam
- mixture model or Eulerian-Eulerian model: driftFluxFoam or twoPhaseEulerFoam
I don't know how to combine them?!

Please help me.

Thanks in advance,
Ali
Hi Ali,

Opening multiple threads will not help you getting more answers. =D

Did you try to run a search on the forum?
For example This seems related.

For what I can read there, I'm not expert at all with VOF, you cannot have Eulerian and VOF together.

But on the Rusche thesis twoPhaseEulerFoam is based on there is a chapter on interface reconstruction. I already told you. Did you check on that?


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Old   December 11, 2016, 05:43
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Dear Ruben,

Hi, I really thank you friendly because your answers for all my posts.
I have two approaches:
۱- VOF + mixture
2- VOF + Eulerian-Eulerian : maybe it is false!

About case 1, I found multiPhaseInterFoam solver but it is incomplete! because it's just Eulerian not Eulerian-Eulerian!

Please please help me... What do I do?

Thanks,
Ali
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Old   December 12, 2016, 16:06
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I don't understand what you are mentioning. VOF or mixture or Eulerian, each of them is developed from an idea (physical behaviors and assumptions) to model multiphase flow. Why do you need to combine them?

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Old   December 13, 2016, 15:44
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Originally Posted by SPH_CFD View Post
I don't understand what you are mentioning. VOF or mixture or Eulerian, each of them is developed from an idea (physical behaviors and assumptions) to model multiphase flow. Why do you need to combine them?

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Because the flow is multi-phase (air+water+solid) and combination of the models are created in my case:

VOF= air / slurry
note: slurry = water + solid

mixture: water...solid
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Old   December 13, 2016, 16:15
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Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
Because the flow is multi-phase (air+water+solid) and combination of the models are created in my case:

VOF= air / slurry
note: slurry = water + solid

mixture: water...solid
I am not sure you can combine these models because each of them has invidual characteristics depending on physical behaviors. So, I do not think you will find a solver in openFOAM combing as you want (even FLUENT must also separate them for specific cases).

However, if you want something like that, you must find papers to follow and develop them by yourself and this needs a lot of knowledges.

Or, what you can do is to use 1 model for this case. I think Eulerian Eulerian for 3 phases is possible in this situation.

Good luck
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Old   December 14, 2016, 00:05
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Originally Posted by SPH_CFD View Post
I am not sure you can combine these models because each of them has invidual characteristics depending on physical behaviors. So, I do not think you will find a solver in openFOAM combing as you want (even FLUENT must also separate them for specific cases).

However, if you want something like that, you must find papers to follow and develop them by yourself and this needs a lot of knowledges.

Or, what you can do is to use 1 model for this case. I think Eulerian Eulerian for 3 phases is possible in this situation.

Good luck
This work has been done in Fluent in two steps: At first has been used from VOF model then mixture model.
But I have to use OpenFOAM! That it has different solvers with different models! For example:
interFoam: VOF model
driftFluxFoam: mixture model
twoPhaseEulerFoam: Eulerian-Eulerian

Also I am a new user in OpenFOAM!!!
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Old   December 14, 2016, 00:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
This work has been done in Fluent in two steps: At first has been used from VOF model then mixture model.
But I have to use OpenFOAM! That it has different solvers with different models! For example:
interFoam: VOF model
driftFluxFoam: mixture model
twoPhaseEulerFoam: Eulerian-Eulerian

Also I am a new user in OpenFOAM!!!

Ali, interesting simulation this. Fluent now provides mixture and vof in same model. You can chose to track the interface or not. These two model are pretty much same with few small differences.

1. VOF models typically provide surface tension force that go into momentum equation.
2. Mixture model provides drag forces due to phase slip velocities.

If you forget the phase slip velocities then using VOF model for this simulation shall be easy. All you need to do is replace interface tracking scheme to something more diffusive like second order upwind or something like this for phase you are not interested in tracking interface.

If you want to calculate drag too due to slip then Fluent might be able to do as they have same model for both (I am not sure), in openfoam right now in my understanding is not possible. Because you chose a "solver" and that is suitable for particular class of problems.

In my solver FVUS/wildkatze , I did attempt to combine these two models and tried to automatically judge if interface tracking is needed or not. (is scheme change from cell to cell) but that did not work well because slight misjudgement and interface was smeared where it shall not be.

Nonetheless if you can provide suitable test case i could sit down and make that change and you and others can use FVUS/wildkatze with mixed models.

This is mixture multiphase simulation from Wildkatze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_y8VejlklQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf1XBDAzMb0

This is VOF with w-THINC interface tracking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir1tpV_JhiM
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Old   December 15, 2016, 03:18
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Originally Posted by arjun View Post
Ali, interesting simulation this. Fluent now provides mixture and vof in same model. You can chose to track the interface or not. These two model are pretty much same with few small differences.

1. VOF models typically provide surface tension force that go into momentum equation.
2. Mixture model provides drag forces due to phase slip velocities.

If you forget the phase slip velocities then using VOF model for this simulation shall be easy. All you need to do is replace interface tracking scheme to something more diffusive like second order upwind or something like this for phase you are not interested in tracking interface.

If you want to calculate drag too due to slip then Fluent might be able to do as they have same model for both (I am not sure), in openfoam right now in my understanding is not possible. Because you chose a "solver" and that is suitable for particular class of problems.

In my solver FVUS/wildkatze , I did attempt to combine these two models and tried to automatically judge if interface tracking is needed or not. (is scheme change from cell to cell) but that did not work well because slight misjudgement and interface was smeared where it shall not be.

Nonetheless if you can provide suitable test case i could sit down and make that change and you and others can use FVUS/wildkatze with mixed models.

This is mixture multiphase simulation from Wildkatze

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_y8VejlklQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wf1XBDAzMb0

This is VOF with w-THINC interface tracking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ir1tpV_JhiM
Thank you for your reply. It's very good that you are going to develop this important solver.
I could introduce "Cyclone" case, it is in Lagrangian folder into MPPICFoam solver, that this device is very useful and practical and both VOF and mixture models are into it clearly. I could help you by understanding its performance and details.

Actually in practice Cyclone must be had one inlet and two outlets but in Cyclone case of the OpenFOAM tutorials a outlet is just! so it's false.

Thanks a lot,
Ali
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Old   December 20, 2016, 01:49
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Hi arjun,
I am waiting for your response about my recent email.

Thanks,
Ali
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Old   December 21, 2016, 11:34
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Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
Hi arjun,
I am waiting for your response about my recent email.

Thanks,
Ali

On which account did you send mail. I did not recieve it?

Arjun
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Old   December 21, 2016, 12:23
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Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
Thank you for your reply. It's very good that you are going to develop this important solver.
I could introduce "Cyclone" case, it is in Lagrangian folder into MPPICFoam solver, that this device is very useful and practical and both VOF and mixture models are into it clearly. I could help you by understanding its performance and details.

Actually in practice Cyclone must be had one inlet and two outlets but in Cyclone case of the OpenFOAM tutorials a outlet is just! so it's false.

Thanks a lot,
Ali
My mean was this email. I really need your help.

Best regards,
Ali
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Old   December 21, 2016, 12:27
Default change the k-e model to RSM(LRR) model ?
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Dear Arjun
I want to change the k-e model to RSM(LRR) model but I don't know its details.
My field is in Mineral Processing and the first time I am working with OpenFOAM!!
I have much experience in working with Cyclone...
Please help me.

Thanks a lot,
Ali
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Old   December 22, 2016, 16:12
Default How to combine VOF model and mixture model ?
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Dear All,
I want to combine VOF model and mixture model in Cyclone, but I don't know its details (what solvers?...).

interFoam: VOF model
driftFluxFoam: mixture model

Thanks in advance,
Ali
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Old   December 22, 2016, 20:51
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Ali

I am sorry I can not help with openFOAM because don't use it. I try to help people in openfoam forum because i try if i can.

I was talking about providing a mixed model in FVUS/wildkatze solver. I would soon mix these two models in it. (Base model is already same so it is not going to be big deal, just that i am busy with other things - for example i added mesh motion to immersed boundary module, now i will add motion to sliding interface, then a explicit overset mesh is on cards).

I will update on this thread when the mixed model in FVUS is available.
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Old   December 23, 2016, 01:07
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Originally Posted by arjun View Post
Ali

I am sorry I can not help with openFOAM because don't use it. I try to help people in openfoam forum because i try if i can.

I was talking about providing a mixed model in FVUS/wildkatze solver. I would soon mix these two models in it. (Base model is already same so it is not going to be big deal, just that i am busy with other things - for example i added mesh motion to immersed boundary module, now i will add motion to sliding interface, then a explicit overset mesh is on cards).

I will update on this thread when the mixed model in FVUS is available.
Hi arjun,
Excellent I wish you developed the mixed model.

Best,
Ali
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Old   December 23, 2016, 02:39
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Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
Hi arjun,
Excellent I wish you developed the mixed model.

Best,
Ali

It will be done sooner than you expect. Mixture multiphase and VOf combined in one.

I have urgent need to adding overset mesh for someone from industry so that takes prority.

I am sorry again for not being much help. Also I thank you to show me that such model could be needed. My last casual trial i left it because i did not see anyone using it.
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Old   December 23, 2016, 03:19
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Originally Posted by arjun View Post
It will be done sooner than you expect. Mixture multiphase and VOf combined in one.

I have urgent need to adding overset mesh for someone from industry so that takes prority.

I am sorry again for not being much help. Also I thank you to show me that such model could be needed. My last casual trial i left it because i did not see anyone using it.
Thanks a lot,
The mixed model is very essential for cyclone. Are you familiar with cyclone?
I'm ready to help you about cyclone's performance...

Thanks,
Ali
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Old   August 8, 2017, 15:23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebtedaei View Post
This work has been done in Fluent in two steps: At first has been used from VOF model then mixture model.
But I have to use OpenFOAM! That it has different solvers with different models! For example:
interFoam: VOF model
driftFluxFoam: mixture model
twoPhaseEulerFoam: Eulerian-Eulerian

Also I am a new user in OpenFOAM!!!
I am very interest in this simulation with Fluent. How did you interpret the boundary condition of mixture model at interface given by the VOF model?
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Old   October 23, 2017, 04:36
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Hi all.
Please suggest me a suitable two-phase flow (air-water) solver that It solves the mixing model (mixture model) and the turbulent flow.
Thank
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