
[Sponsors] 
FSI with pimpleDyMFoam: Loosely or Closely coupled? 

LinkBack  Thread Tools  Search this Thread  Display Modes 
January 10, 2019, 07:53 

#41  
Member
A
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 10 
Quote:
Hi Bloerb, Thanks a lot, the output is indeed displayed in my log file. However, I noticed that when I compare the acceleration found in every time directory, there is a small dis agreement between the acceleration displayed in the uniform/sixDoFRigidBodyMotionState file and the one with your restraint function. I attached a screenshot of both the MotionState file at the first timestep and the corrosponding pimple Outer loop in the log file. It seems that the velocity and displacement have perfect agreeement with the MotionState file. Yet, the acceleration is slightly different (this was also the case for other timesteps I observed). Is it possible that the acceleration is updated once more within one corrector loop and that the current restrain output is taking the ´old acceleration´ within the outer corrector loop? (Before relaxation for example). I am curious to know what you think! BR, Adriaan ========================== EDIT: In fact, I am pretty sure this is the case. The code for the acceleration is defined as follows (https://develop.openfoam.com/Develop...idBodyMotion.C): Code:
static bool first = true; // Save the previous iteration accelerations for relaxation vector aPrevIter = a(); vector tauPrevIter = tau(); // Calculate new accelerations a() = fGlobal/mass_; tau() = (Q().T() & tauGlobal); applyRestraints(); // Relax accelerations on all but first iteration if (!first) { a() = aRelax_*a() + (1  aRelax_)*aPrevIter; tau() = aRelax_*tau() + (1  aRelax_)*tauPrevIter; } else { first = false; } BR, A 

January 10, 2019, 15:39 

#42 
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 353
Rep Power: 21 
Yes that is true. All the restraint does is call the access function for velocity and output it via an Info statement.
Code:
Info <<"acceleration: "<< motion.state().a() << endl; Code:
Info <<"acceleration: "<< a() << endl; 

January 11, 2019, 04:37 

#43 
Member
A
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 10 
Ahh thanks Bloerb, works perfect I was very close myself but I forgot to do the 'wmake' again
Cheers! A 

January 11, 2019, 10:05 
Symplectic solver

#44 
Member
A
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 10 
Dear Foamers,
I am curious to understand the exact difference between the symplectic structural solver and the Newmark solver. Symplectic is an explicit solver, which does not necessarily iterations to solve the structural system. At the same time, the Newmark solver is known to be implicit, which implies that this solver would always need some number of iterations to solve the structure. I have seen in the past that this is indeed the case, it has to be noted tho, Newmark already approaches the right structural solution when only a very few number of iterations are employed. After I was able to monitor the structural displacement, velocity and acceleration for every outer correction, I compared those three metrics within one timestep. In the attachment, I have included three notepad files which show the development of these three structural metrics for every pimple outer corrections. The pimple outer corrections are listed on the left side and as can be seen, I enforced 10 outer iterations. It appeared that while the acceleration and velocity varied for each pimple outer corrector loop, the displacement remained exactly constant. I am wondering what the effect of this on the moveDynamicMesh option. I.e., does the mesh actually move for each pimple outer corrector or does it remain at the same location when the structural displacement is constant? I would think that the displacement is related in someway to the boundary condition point displacement which governs the mesh movement and eventually the mesh diffusion. This could mean that symplectic is not suitable for implicit FSI coupling. Besides that, what does this constant displacement say about the solver? I know it is explicit and based on leapfrog scheme, would this be the reason why it remains constant? I know that the Newmark solver (implicit btw) shows a variation of all three metrics for each pimple loop, so I guess I would stick for now to the Newmark solver for my stronglycoupled cases. Let me know what you think! Thanks. BR, A 

January 18, 2019, 10:02 

#45 
Member
Ilan
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 52
Rep Power: 7 
Hello Aakie,
Really sorry, I don't have any answer for you. You already are in the future for me ! But I have a question : My calculation is really heavy, so I would like to impose an initial rotational velocity. To avoid first solid iterations. Here is my dynamicMeshDict. Code:
dynamicFvMesh dynamicMotionSolverFvMesh; motionSolverLibs ("libsixDoFRigidBodyMotion.so"); solver sixDoFRigidBodyMotion; sixDoFRigidBodyMotionCoeffs { patches (blades); innerDistance 1e5; // Extent of the solidbody motion region around body outerDistance 1.1e5; // Extent of meshmorphing region around body mass 0.0671978317285; centreOfMass (8.05317198096e08 1.02214401065e07 1.49883880326e18); momentOfInertia (0.000432422554423 0.000427091085313 0.000514489906403); orientation (0.710317424884 0.7038814928 0 0.7038814928 0.710317424883 0 0 0 1); velocity (0 0 0); acceleration (0 0 0); angularMomentum (0 0 0); rhoName rhoInf; rhoInf 1; //g (0 0 0); report on; accelerationRelaxation 0.3; value uniform (0 0 0); constraints { zAxis { sixDoFRigidBodyMotionConstraint axis; axis (0 0 1); } fixedPt { sixDoFRigidBodyMotionConstraint point; point (0 0 0); } } restraints { } } Initial Omega =8rad/s R = 0.085m mass = 0.067kg I got x= I*omega=r²*m*omega = 3.9e6. This seems wrong. And I wanted to be sure that it is only initial condition and not a imposed momentum for all the simulation. If one of you has a solution, I'll be greatfull. The only Initial condition mentioned here : https://openfoamwiki.net/index.php/P...onSolverFvMesh is the velocity :/ Thank you so much ! 

January 22, 2019, 05:46 
pimpleDyMFoam understanding

#46 
Member
A
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 10 
Dear Foamers,
I have tested with a couple of pimpleDyMFoam settings locally and now I understand the difference between symplectic and Newmark and also the complete idea behind the implicit and explicit pimpleDyMFoam. Thanks all for the help (especially Bloerb and Haze)! I am now running my last batch of cases and then I hope to finish my thesis rather fast. If some of you would like to more about the working principle of pimpleDyMFoam, feel free to ask me. @Magistrane, I would not have an idea unfortunately about initial conditions and rotating degrees of freedom, I am sorry. Good luck! BR, A 

March 6, 2019, 12:22 

#47  
Member
Ilan
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 52
Rep Power: 7 
Quote:
Hello Aakie, I recently tried simpletic solver on my case. Results were totaly unsuitable. I think that implicit solver are much more efficient for the utilization we have. Otherwise, I have a question for you. I am writing my first article but have some difficulties to describe the coupling between the solid and the fluid code. I found this article : https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...60148117303609 University of Strathclyde worked a lot of coupled systems but still, I can't figure out if this coupling chart is good or not : as we talk about, for me, solid equations are solved only once for each time step. I this true only with simpletic ? Is Newmark solver changing the coupling ? Is it linked to the fact they have a prescribed rotation ? I see it as follow :  New time step  Flow Calculation until convergence criterions is reach or Nouter is reach  Forces calculations  Motion responses calculation  Next time step Thus, coupling is always poorly solved always fluid to solid and never solid to fluid. Am I wrong ? I just need to be sure of what I am writing... I am supprised not to find any documentation about 6DOF but Chalmer's. I hope you'll find a bit of time to answer, Thanks, Ilan 

March 7, 2019, 04:29 
moveMeshOuterCorrection

#48  
Member
A
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 30
Rep Power: 10 
Quote:
Yeh I also had a hard time in finding any documentation on this matter. It depends on if you use the setting 'moveOuterMesh On' in the PIMPLE settings in fvSolution (only in OF1806+). If this latter setting is on, then you have the following settings:  Newmark: strongly coupled FSI, implicit FSI + implicit structural solver  Symplectic: weakly coupled FSI, implicit FSI + explicit structural solver If the setting is off, then following applies:  Newmark: weakly coupled FSI, explicit FSI + failing implicit structural solver  Symplectic: weakly coupled FSI, explicit FSI, explicit structural solver Hence, the symplectic solver only makes sense when you are using the OFF setting and the Newmark solver only when using the ON setting. This is caused by the fact the FSI solver and structural solvers are not really implemented independent of each other in OpenFOAM. The scheme in this paper is really clear I think: https://pure.qub.ac.uk/ws/files/1707...lder_et_al.pdf .(Figure 1). Tip: download OpenFOAM locally to your desktop and change the code in the 6DoF solver to plot some of the metrics each timestep/each loop. This helped me greatly in understanding how the solver works. BR, A 

July 26, 2021, 22:51 
pimpleDyMFoam + newmark: weakly coupling or strongly coupling

#49  
Member
WY
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 36
Rep Power: 6 
Quote:
I have the similar problem about weakly or strongly coupling in OpenFOAM and hope you can give me some help! I use pimpleDyMFoam + sixDoFRigidBodyMotion + Newmarkbeta to solve free vibration of cylinder. And the key parameters are shown below: 1. PIMPLE in fvSolution HTML Code:
PIMPLE { correctPhi yes; nOuterCorrectors 2; nCorrectors 2; nNonOrthogonalCorrectors 1; } 

Tags 
coupled, flutter, fsi, pimpledymfoam 
Thread Tools  Search this Thread 
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Formulation in FSI problem with pimpleDyMFoam  NewOrleans  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  5  December 19, 2018 06:52 
[ANSYS Meshing] Help with element size  sandri_92  ANSYS Meshing & Geometry  14  November 14, 2018 08:54 
Aerodynamic Coefs. have null value (Coupled FSI simulation with preCICE))  NJohnson  SU2  1  March 29, 2018 17:12 
Coupled FSI using ANSYSFLOTRAN  yusun  Main CFD Forum  2  January 10, 2010 04:57 
coupled FSI  jai  CFX  0  May 9, 2009 08:21 