
[Sponsors] 
December 22, 2009, 18:42 
Is pressure really modified pressure with 2/3k included?

#1 
Member
Matthew J. Churchfield
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Boulder, Colorado, USA
Posts: 49
Rep Power: 10 
I am trying to understand the formulation of the momentum equation in the solvers that use PISO. The divergence of the deviatoric part of the effective Reynold stress tensor is added into the lefthand implicit side of the momentum equations using divDevReff or divDevRhoReff for incompressible and compressible flow, respectively. The 2/3k delta_ij contribution to the Reynolds stress tensor has been removed since we are dealing with the deviatoric part.
Where does this 2/3 k term go? Is the pressure really a modified pressure, p + 2/3k? If that is the case, is modified pressure written to the data files or is 2/3k removed and actual pressure written to file? I know that isn't so important in incompressible flow where the gradient of pressure is all that is needed, but it is important in compressible flow. P.S. If you well understand this subject, see my recently posted question added to the thread "Calculating divDevReff" started by jposunz. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you, Matt 

January 6, 2010, 16:40 

#2  
New Member
Michał
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1
Rep Power: 0 
Quote:
Quote:
Quick search on this site gave me this, maybe helpful ( edge solves compressible RANS ): http://www.foi.se/FOI/templates/Page____4568.aspx 

September 16, 2010, 03:47 

#3 
Member
Kim Yusik
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 8 
Hi, Matt
Your detail explantion in openfoamwiki helps me a lot to understand the code in openfoam (especially turbulence model part). I also came across the same problems as yours. one is 'dev2' inside of the divDevBeff issue and the other is modified pressure (p+2/3k) . currently, I use incompressible pisoFoam (OF 1.7.0) so first one may affect little and it seems obvisouly 'dev2' rather than 'dev'. But second problem, I am not quite sure. based on solver itself, it seems it use only 'p' not 'p+2/3k'. So did you figure out this issue? or Do I misunderstand something? Thanks Yusik 

September 27, 2010, 04:01 

#4  
Member
Kim Yusik
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 39
Rep Power: 8 
OpenFoam confirmed that 2/3 k is caculated as a part of the pressure.
http://www.openfoam.com/mantisbt/view.php?id=47 Quote:


June 19, 2014, 22:34 

#5 
Member
yehanyu
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 41
Rep Power: 6 
This is still confusing. If the scalar field "p" in all OpenFOAM solvers actually represent turbulent pressure (p+2/3k), then these pressures cannot be used in the equation of state. For example, the equation of state of ideal gas is
p=rho*R*T Obviously the "p" in this equation is the actual pressure, not the turbulent pressure. However, all solvers seem ignore this issue. For instance, in the compressible solver "rhoCentralFoam", the pressure is computed from density and rPsi as follows surfaceScalarField p_pos(rho_pos*rPsi_pos); surfaceScalarField p_neg(rho_neg*rPsi_neg); There is no terms involving 2/3k added. Can anybody gives an answer? Thanks a lot. 

June 19, 2014, 22:46 

#6 
Member
yehanyu
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Beijing, China
Posts: 41
Rep Power: 6 
There is a master’s thesis which gives some explanation. You can click on the following link:
http://www.divaportal.org/smash/get...FULLTEXT01.pdf 

August 8, 2014, 11:03 

#7 
Senior Member
Anne Gerdes
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hamburg
Posts: 168
Rep Power: 8 
I am also interested in how the kinetic energy term is inserted in the pressure.
Does anybody know, where we can find the implementation? 

July 16, 2015, 14:02 

#8 
New Member
Eli Baldwin
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 9
Rep Power: 5 
If the solver uses the Boussinesq eddy viscosity assumption, and includes the deviatoric portion of the Reynolds stress tensor into the momentum equation using divDevReff or divDevRhoRess, then the hydrostatic contribution of the Reynolds stress is incorporated in the pressure term. This happens automatically when momentum is solved, and this modified pressure (p + 2/3k) is what is written to the p field.
If anyone is unclear about this, take a look at the derivation of the momentum equation here, http://openfoamwiki.net/index.php/Bu...sinesqPisoFoam. This thread was also helpful, http://www.cfdonline.com/Forums/ope...ivdevreff.html. Also note, the 2/3k contribution to the modified pressure is typically small. Consider what it is as compared to the dynamic pressure: dynamic pressure = 1/2*Umean^2 turbulence intensity = u'/Umean u'=sqrt(2/3*k), or k=3/2*u'^2 Some simple math shows that, 2/3*k = dynamic pressure * 2 * turbulence intensity^2 Since turbulence intensity typically will be between 1% and 10%, the 2/3k contribution will amount to somewhere between .02% and 2% of the dynamic pressure of the flow. I don't think that the rhoCentralFoam solver handles the Reynolds stress in this way. So I'm not sure that it is relevant to this discussion. 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Calculation of the Governing Equations  Mihail  CFX  7  September 7, 2014 06:27 
Compilation errors in ThirdPartymallochoard  feng_w  OpenFOAM Installation  1  January 25, 2009 07:59 
Pressure averaging at the outlets.  KM  CFX  2  November 23, 2007 14:50 
Pressure boundary condition  Brindaban Ghosh  Main CFD Forum  6  May 3, 2000 13:11 
Hydrostatic pressure in 2phase flow modeling (long)  DS & HB  Main CFD Forum  0  January 8, 2000 16:00 