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May 31, 2022, 12:05 |
Small y+ for Laminar Flow
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#1 |
Senior Member
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Hi deal OpenFOAMers,
My question is the laminar model actually behaves like a DNS if the mesh size is really small so that it resolves the small eddies. I am simulating a flow normal to a thin plate. I found there are some fluctuations and turbulence-like flow field when my mesh is very fine even if I use laminar model (pisoFoam). When I turned on the turbulence model (k-w SST), the flow is very stable, and no turbulence-like eddies observed. I checked the y+; it is less than 5 everywhere along the wall. Can anyone give some comments on that? Thank you in advance! -Michael |
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June 1, 2022, 10:23 |
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#2 | ||
Senior Member
Josh Williams
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Scotland
Posts: 112
Rep Power: 5 |
Hi Michael,
Using the "laminar model" essentially turns turbulence modelling off, correct. Then when the mesh is fine enough, this can be considered the well known "DNS". If the mesh is not sufficiently resolved, then I guess it would be essentially implicit LES, as the largest scales are directly resolved and no subgrid model is directly applied (dissipation to subgrid scales accounted for through the numerical scheme). Quote:
Quote:
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June 1, 2022, 11:01 |
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#3 | ||
Senior Member
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Hi Josh,
Thank you so much for your reply! It is really helpful! It resolved my concerns! Quote:
On the other hand, it seems LES is a good choice if I care about the fluctuations, otherwise I should use RANS and laminar model is a bad choice since the flow is actually turbulent. Do you agree on this? Just out of curiosity, if laminar model and DNS use the same governing equations, why do need dnsFoam? I have no experience of DNS or dnsFoam. Theoretically, if the mesh is fine sufficiently to the Kolmogorov scale, we're solving the NS equations directly, i.e., doing DNS. Can you give some comments on the advantage of dnsFoam solver over laminar solver? Quote:
I appreciate your explanation and sharing your experience! Best, Michale |
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June 1, 2022, 15:55 |
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#4 | |||
Senior Member
Josh Williams
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Scotland
Posts: 112
Rep Power: 5 |
Hi Michael,
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
On a practical note, I am unsure which LES model you have tested. I would generally recommend using dynamic Smagorinsky or WALE, which I have seen to be most similar across varying flow configurations. Dynamic Smagorinsky is slightly better in pretty much all cases in my experience. |
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June 1, 2022, 17:45 |
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#5 |
Senior Member
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Hi Josh,
I truly appreciated your comments and suggestions! You have such an insightful view of turbulent models! Your posts are very informative I have read them a few times and they refreshed me a lot. I used dynamicKEqn for LES. I will try Smagorinsky and WALE later. Shame on me, I just realized that I bought both books by Pierre Saguat 2 years ago but have not read them through. I got to come back to some chapters. If the mesh is not fine enough, a laminar model will give wrong solution if the flow is actually turbulent. However, sometimes it is hard to know it the flow is turbulent or not except it has been well studied. Thank you again for your great help! Best, Michael |
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June 2, 2022, 08:32 |
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#6 | ||
Senior Member
Josh Williams
Join Date: Feb 2021
Location: Scotland
Posts: 112
Rep Power: 5 |
Hi Michael,
Quote:
Quote:
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