Who can help me with orthotropic resistance

lilyshining · April 9, 2009, 21:55

hello, everyone
I am a freshman in CFD. i want to calculate the flow resistance of monolith according to the equation which is provide in STARCD methodology volume, but i meet some trouble. anyone can give some hints to solve this trouble.
In the methodology volume of Star CD(in Chapter 8,Example 2), it gives a formula to calculate the friction factor. in this equation, how to get the value of C1, C2 and n?

Can I calculate the flow resistance of monolith by ergun equation ? but ergun equation is derived for isotropic resistance!

thank you in adavance

A_Lyaskin · April 13, 2009, 04:15

Look for some engineering books on hydraulics - as it is written in the Methodology, these coefficients come from simple relations for "hydraulic resistance" vs Reynolds number. You'll need to calculate Reynolds number for the single channel within your monolith.

Pauli · April 13, 2009, 12:12

A while back I did some automotive catalyst modeling. I directly calculated the A & B coefficients for the channel direction from the measured pressure drop vs. flow rate curve (eq. 8-1 & 8-2). I then set the orthogonal direction's coefficients to arbitrarily large values (4 orders of magnitude larger).

I was also able to replicate the pressure drop vs flow rate curve by computing the pressure drop along one representative channel. For this you need to be careful with appropriately capturing inlet & exit losses.

Follow the useful points for relative values and limits on the B coefficient. The on-line help (Nav-Center help button once inside the porous media panel) has a decent summary. Make sure you understand the superficial velocity concept.

lilyshining · April 13, 2009, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Lyaskin

Look for some engineering books on hydraulics - as it is written in the Methodology, these coefficients come from simple relations for "hydraulic resistance" vs Reynolds number. You'll need to calculate Reynolds number for the single channel within your monolith.

Dear A_Lyaskin
Thanks for you answerm,would you please tell me the title of this kind book?

does you mean I must calculate the reynold number for single channel and then derive the formula for porosity factor

A_Lyaskin · April 14, 2009, 03:55

Right now I have a pretty old book by Daugherty and Ingersoll, "Fluid Dynamics with Engineering Applications" lying on my desk, but there should be plenty of such books.

Yes, you're right about Reynolds number for single channel. Consider a simple example - channel with a circular cross-section. Reorganizing the formula from methodology we have
$\Delta p = - 4f \frac{L}{D} \frac{\rho V^2}{2}$
So you can see that in this case $f = \lambda / 4$ , where $\lambda$ is friction factor. If your Re < 2300, then $\lambda = 64 / Re$ , which gives you

(well, actually it's not a good example, because you can also take

). If your Re > 2300, then there are different theoretical formulas for smooth pipes. The simplest is
$\lambda = 0.3164 / Re^{0.25}$
This gives you

There are also approximations for transition region, which will give you both

and $C_2 \neq 0$

lilyshining · April 14, 2009, 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pauli

A while back I did some automotive catalyst modeling. I directly calculated the A & B coefficients for the channel direction from the measured pressure drop vs. flow rate curve (eq. 8-1 & 8-2). I then set the orthogonal direction's coefficients to arbitrarily large values (4 orders of magnitude larger).

I was also able to replicate the pressure drop vs flow rate curve by computing the pressure drop along one representative channel. For this you need to be careful with appropriately capturing inlet & exit losses.

Follow the useful points for relative values and limits on the B coefficient. The on-line help (Nav-Center help button once inside the porous media panel) has a decent summary. Make sure you understand the superficial velocity concept.

thanks Pauli, now we have estimated the pressure loss through your method,but we want to develop a theoretical model to estimate the pressure loss in different monolith.

lilyshining · April 14, 2009, 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by A_Lyaskin

Right now I have a pretty old book by Daugherty and Ingersoll, "Fluid Dynamics with Engineering Applications" lying on my desk, but there should be plenty of such books.

Yes, you're right about Reynolds number for single channel. Consider a simple example - channel with a circular cross-section. Reorganizing the formula from methodology we have
$\Delta p = - 4f \frac{L}{D} \frac{\rho V^2}{2}$
So you can see that in this case $f = \lambda / 4$ , where $\lambda$ is friction factor. If your Re < 2300, then $\lambda = 64 / Re$ , which gives you

(well, actually it's not a good example, because you can also take

). If your Re > 2300, then there are different theoretical formulas for smooth pipes. The simplest is
$\lambda = 0.3164 / Re^{0.25}$
This gives you

There are also approximations for transition region, which will give you both

and $C_2 \neq 0$

A_Lyaskin

thank you very much for your quick response.

according to your comment, I could deal with monolith channel as a simple pipe to calculate the pressure loss of the whole monolith without considering the monolith porosity. That is to say, the pressure loss caused by friction in the monolith is only related to the parameter of the monolith channel, and has nothing to do with the monolith porosity.

Can I understand your comment in this way ?

By the way if I take

), I can not get

.

Thanks again!

A_Lyaskin · April 14, 2009, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilyshining

according to your comment, I could deal with monolith channel as a simple pipe to calculate the pressure loss of the whole monolith without considering the monolith porosity. That is to say, the pressure loss caused by friction in the monolith is only related to the parameter of the monolith channel, and has nothing to do with the monolith porosity.

Yes, pressure drop is caused by friction in the channels, but porosity $\chi$ also comes to play when you calculate $\alpha$ and $\beta$ coefficients (see formulas 8-15 and 8-16)

And yes, I've screwed with a math a little bit

lilyshining · April 14, 2009, 23:17

I understand it .
thank you very much

vishyaroon · April 24, 2009, 09:05

Have you tried using STAR CCM+ for the pressure curve? You can use field functions and other polynomial functions or tables for modelling the alpha and beta (or A and B). You can also accomodate the porosity accordingly or have something to the effect of C2 and alpha that Fluent uses.

STAR CD may not be able to do this directly, but you can get these effects using some user sub-routines in STAR CD.

April 9, 2009, 21:55	Who can help me with orthotropic resistance	#1
lilyshining New Member wu Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 17	hello, everyone I am a freshman in CFD. i want to calculate the flow resistance of monolith according to the equation which is provide in STARCD methodology volume, but i meet some trouble. anyone can give some hints to solve this trouble. In the methodology volume of Star CD(in Chapter 8,Example 2), it gives a formula to calculate the friction factor. in this equation, how to get the value of C1, C2 and n? Can I calculate the flow resistance of monolith by ergun equation ? but ergun equation is derived for isotropic resistance! thank you in adavance

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April 13, 2009, 04:15		#2
A_Lyaskin Member Anton Lyaskin Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Samara, Russia Posts: 66 Rep Power: 17	Look for some engineering books on hydraulics - as it is written in the Methodology, these coefficients come from simple relations for "hydraulic resistance" vs Reynolds number. You'll need to calculate Reynolds number for the single channel within your monolith.

April 13, 2009, 12:12		#3
Pauli Senior Member Pauli Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 189 Rep Power: 17	A while back I did some automotive catalyst modeling. I directly calculated the A & B coefficients for the channel direction from the measured pressure drop vs. flow rate curve (eq. 8-1 & 8-2). I then set the orthogonal direction's coefficients to arbitrarily large values (4 orders of magnitude larger). I was also able to replicate the pressure drop vs flow rate curve by computing the pressure drop along one representative channel. For this you need to be careful with appropriately capturing inlet & exit losses. Follow the useful points for relative values and limits on the B coefficient. The on-line help (Nav-Center help button once inside the porous media panel) has a decent summary. Make sure you understand the superficial velocity concept.

April 14, 2009, 03:55		#5
A_Lyaskin Member Anton Lyaskin Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Samara, Russia Posts: 66 Rep Power: 17	Right now I have a pretty old book by Daugherty and Ingersoll, "Fluid Dynamics with Engineering Applications" lying on my desk, but there should be plenty of such books. Yes, you're right about Reynolds number for single channel. Consider a simple example - channel with a circular cross-section. Reorganizing the formula from methodology we have $\Delta p = - 4f \frac{L}{D} \frac{\rho V^2}{2}$ So you can see that in this case $f = \lambda / 4$ , where $\lambda$ is friction factor. If your Re < 2300, then $\lambda = 64 / Re$ , which gives you (well, actually it's not a good example, because you can also take ). If your Re > 2300, then there are different theoretical formulas for smooth pipes. The simplest is $\lambda = 0.3164 / Re^{0.25}$ This gives you There are also approximations for transition region, which will give you both and $C_2 \neq 0$

April 14, 2009, 23:17		#9
lilyshining New Member wu Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 7 Rep Power: 17	I understand it . thank you very much

April 24, 2009, 09:05		#10
vishyaroon Senior Member Aroon Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Racine WI Posts: 148 Rep Power: 17	Have you tried using STAR CCM+ for the pressure curve? You can use field functions and other polynomial functions or tables for modelling the alpha and beta (or A and B). You can also accomodate the porosity accordingly or have something to the effect of C2 and alpha that Fluent uses. STAR CD may not be able to do this directly, but you can get these effects using some user sub-routines in STAR CD.