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Old   May 11, 2001, 03:48
Default [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #1
Park
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Hi. What do you think the best subject in CFD (especially Naval & Ocean Engin.) ?
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Old   May 11, 2001, 09:03
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #2
Johann C. Chen
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(1) I know the answer. (2) If I tell it to you, how much will you pay me. (3) Nothing comes for free in this world. (4) Especially in CFD.
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Old   May 11, 2001, 09:52
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #3
Alton J. Reich
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Park,

I'll tell you John's answer for free. It's turbomachinery

I did CFD in what could be called the Naval and Ocean engineering area for a few years, and I did many interesting things. So, if your definition of "best" is based on doing interesting things, then that area is at least a candidate.

If your definition of Best involves looking at the potential for growth in term of usage of CFD, then I think you'd have to look at the areas where the technology will grow overall. This would be areas like MEMS and biotechnology.

Alton
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Old   May 11, 2001, 13:28
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #4
John C. Chien
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(1). External aerodynamics used to be one of the best CFD subject. There were commercial, military, space and rocket applications. It requires huge government support, and it is gone for ten years. (2). Internal aerodynamics for turbomachinery represents the most complex CFD applications. There are a lot of things can be done in this field, geometry, mesh, algorithms, turbulence models, combustors, ducting flows, secondary flow for cooling, etc... You will find endless sub-areas in turbomachinery for serious CFD research, developemnt and applications. (3). Aircrafts can be designed and used for 20 years easily, but for jet engines and power plant applications, there is a need to improved the design from time to time. So, the field is still open for new ideas. (on the other hand, once the aircraft is built, you don't need the engineer any more. It is like building a house. Once it is done, it is done.) (4). Since turbomachinery like jet engine or power plant is limited to a few large companies, their policy in CFD will determine the health of that field. (you can't build jet engine in your backyard, so you will have to work for someone else.) (5). The turbomachinery can include fans, pumps, etc... so, the actual field of application is quite large. (6). Applications in auto industries can be an important field, this is because everyone needs a car. And new models are also being produced every year. It is another area for the design integration of CFD. It has high potential to benefit from the integration of cfd. (7). From the technical side, the problem is the same: geometry, mesh, solution algorithm, turbulence modeling, reacting flows, multi-phase flows. A lot can be done in these areas.
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Old   May 14, 2001, 03:16
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #5
S.P.Asok
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Are Mr.John C.Chien and Johann C.Chen the same persons? for I quess I have not observed Mr.John C.Chien to be so particular about money in his past communications.Whoever it is I am not here to find fault with their opinion.
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Old   May 14, 2001, 19:50
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #6
John C. Chien
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(1). I think, money is important. So, don't get me wrong that money is not important. Let me say it again, money is important. This is becuase in the last two years, my Internet connection has been free. Now I am getting only several hours of free internet time. This tells me that money is important. (2). So, if you look back and do the search, you will see that we have invested in cfd-forum a lot of time and money. (3). Anyway, there are many way to get the money; one can ask for it at the time when he is providing the service, one can also use the credit card to pay for the service, or one can borrow the money and use it to earn more money then pay for it, or one can give away the service or the product (cfd-forum, free Internet connection or free e-mail) and try to get the money from someone else, or one can just give away money with no string attached and try to build up the publicity, or ..... (4). Money is something like the free Internet connection time, it is important. But like anything else, up to now, I always have more money waiting for me to spend. (5). If you don't use the time wisely, and mass produce the products or garbages, then, there is only one way to go. That is, everyone will become poor. Producing more and faster will not earn you more money in the end. This is because you are forcing the global system to speed up its consumption rate. (6). Writing more e-mail will not make you richer, running more cfd codes will not make you smarter, producing more IC can only consume more electricity and turn the sand into solid cubes. (7). CFD deals with numerical analysis and mathematical modeling in fluid mechanics. So, the opportunity is endless. It is not difficult to do CFD either. The basic problem is: people think that CFD is a mass production machine, and by running the cfd code it will print more money. (8). CFD can produce information which can be used to make good judgement to make money. So, you have to think beyond the code level. Hence, the best CFD subject is the one which will give you the opportunity to think. (9). There are many cars on the road today, if one can improve the engine design and increase the efficiency, the likelyhood of oil war will be reduced and the air will be cleaner. That is just one example. Unfortunately, people are thinking about selling more cars to make more money. To sell more cars, one need to make more cars and make it cheaper. And if we continue along this path, eventually, we will be buying only small match-box toy cars. Are they still buying expensive B2 bomber? Why not turn one billion dollar machine into a project to do CFD research to improve the car engine efficiency? (10). This is because people are not thinking. They only try to make money and print more money. Money is money, only when it is moving. And to make money move, one has to think first. Think CFD, not money. In this way, it will make the money move, then money will turn itself into real money.
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Old   May 15, 2001, 06:59
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #7
S.P.Asok
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The explanation givenby Mr.John C.Chien on the importance of money and time makes good reading and he ought have really taken so much time and energy to put it up.Regards.
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Old   May 19, 2001, 13:42
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #8
John C. Chien
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(1). The truth is : it is very hard to do good CFD analysis. (2). As a result, good tricks are usually not revealed. (3). So, you are watching people floating in the big oecan, trying to grab whatever is within his reach. (4). The fact is "there is no free lunch" in the CFD world. So, what we are doing in cfd-forum is just trying to re-iterate that statement. Like a doctor, we only provide the direction. Whether you will be able to find the solution depends on your luck. (5). And if the commercial cfd code vendors know how to design a better product using his own code, then they would spend all of their time selling the design instead of the blue print.
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Old   May 21, 2001, 06:07
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #9
S.P.Asok
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Dear sirs, Can I know who runs this cfd forum?This question is prompted by a part of Mr.Chien's answer"....so what we are doing in cfd forum is just trying...."

It is alright that no one needs to expect "a free lunch" always.But new comers need some support until they also become informed enough which can attract more people into the fold.

How is it possible to some contributors like Mr.Chien to answer awide variety of queries and how does he find time to answer elaborately too?Can we know something more about you Mr.John C.Chien.Are you someone like an employee of this forum or a very enthusiastic participant. Regards, s.p.asok
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Old   May 21, 2001, 12:29
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #10
John C. Chien
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(1). Well, he was given a title of superman in CFD many years ago. (2). From my point of view, the world has been sinking for at least a dozen years. (3). There is a power shortage, the oil price is high, the air is polluted, the SUV cars are everywhere, the potential for war between east and west is rapidly increasing, and the IC market has been rather poor for a while, in some places there are oversuply of houses, and military is still trying to make the war plane invisible , etc.... (4). A report says that labor cost in Japan is about 25 times of that in China. So, for the developed countries to survive, they have to invade the poor countries. And for the poor countries to survive, they have to provide cheaper labor for the developed countries. It is a no end loop. (5). There is no free lunch in the developed countries or developing countries. It is a funny world now, people are all doing the wrong things at the same time. (6). The fact is: FASTER COMMUNICATION, AND FREE INFORMATION EXCHANGE ELIMINATE THE DELAY TIME WHICH ARE ESSENTIAL FOR THE IMPROVEMENT OF LIFE AND STABILITY OF SOCIETY IN THE WORLD. The delay time is just the "timing" which can not be changed. You are spending your future today. And the world is sinking deeper everyday. (7). So, start thinking, to see how to spend less resources, and improve your life and other people's life. Unfortunately, more and more are becoming slaves of computers and machines. Industrial revolution is not for everyone, and it is not forever.
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Old   May 23, 2001, 08:10
Default Re: [The Best CFD subject ?]
  #11
S.P.Asok
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The nickname "superman" is quite apt.Though the reply is philosophical there is no denial for the facts.

All the people can not be said to be doing the wrong things,people willing to do good works will always be there-like you and me and many others sharing this platform and it is heartening that most of them are quite willing to help out each other which will be encouraging for babes in CFD.

I do not readily accept the notion given in all Capital letters.Evidently people have become more materialistic and it can't be a fault altogether.

But for the industrial revolution the world can't be what it is today and results do possess a double edged knife's stature.We have to proceed optimistically.Hopefully things can change into more goodness on any day. It seems that some of my queries unanswered do not deserve one. Regards, s.p.asok
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