
[Sponsors] 
November 25, 2008, 10:53 
Hello everyone.
I have been

#1 
New Member
Naveed Akram
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3
Rep Power: 9 
Hello everyone.
I have been working on the nlf0414 laminar airfoil. I have calculated the drag and lift coefficients for various angles and have got decent results. I have been using the steady state solver  simpleFoam  for unstructured grids. My simulations are twodimensional. I am now working on an ice accreted nlf0414 airfoil. I am using the same solver settings as the nonice nlf0414 airfoil but my solution blows up after a few iterations. Here are some details about the case: I created the mesh in ICEMCFD. I converted it into a fluent mesh which i then converted into foam format using fluent3dMeshTofoam. As the case is 2D, i am using empty boundaries on the left and right sides of the domain. I am using inlet and outlet boundaries and walls for the airfoil, top and bottom regions. I am using the kepsilon turbulence model. I estimated k to be 20.23 and epsilon to be 166.12. I used these same settings for the nonice cases which converged fine. My Reynolds number based on airfoil chord (0.914m) is 4.6x10^6 and inlet velocity is 73.45m/s. I am attaching my case file. When i run my case this is the problem i am having: Create time Create mesh for time = 0 Reading field p Reading field U Reading/calculating face flux field phi Selecting incompressible transport model Newtonian Selecting RAS turbulence model kEpsilon kEpsilonCoeffs { Cmu 0.09; C1 1.44; C2 1.92; alphaEps 0.76923; } Starting time loop Time = 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 0.0868802, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 0.0384705, No Iterations 1 ICE default IO error handler doing an exit(), pid = 25139, errno = 0 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 0.000974596, No Iterations 453 time step continuity errors : sum local = 0.0443247, global = 0.000256781, cumulative = 0.000256781 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 0.177983, Final residual = 0.0134905, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 5124.54 max: 2.59707e+06 average: 23725.9 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 0.0221967, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 75.45 s ClockTime = 77 s Time = 2 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.00022456, Final residual = 1.72182e07, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.171213, Final residual = 6.76872e06, No Iterations 1 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.199818, Final residual = 0.00173239, No Iterations 1001 time step continuity errors : sum local = 0.25953, global = 0.000524615, cumulative = 0.000267833 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 0.380199, Final residual = 3.54249e13, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 62.2232 max: 6.84878e+06 average: 26467.3 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.00031994, Final residual = 5.93409e06, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 211.38 s ClockTime = 223 s Time = 3 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.999831, Final residual = 0.0334756, No Iterations 2 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.999976, Final residual = 0.0290285, No Iterations 2 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.783759, Final residual = 0.000762911, No Iterations 635 time step continuity errors : sum local = 5126.09, global = 115.949, cumulative = 115.949 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 0.0740209, No Iterations 2 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 0.000545361, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 304.56 s ClockTime = 319 s Time = 4 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.637303, Final residual = 0.0534082, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.392361, Final residual = 0.000317455, No Iterations 2 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 0.949414, Final residual = 0.00213447, No Iterations 1001 time step continuity errors : sum local = 4384.93, global = 1118.18, cumulative = 1234.13 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 0.255896, Final residual = 0.0139967, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 1.31507e+11 max: 2.87675e+27 average: 9.48764e+21 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.999977, Final residual = 0.092381, No Iterations 1 ExecutionTime = 441.92 s ClockTime = 466 s Time = 5 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.565411, Final residual = 0.000464199, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.361508, Final residual = 0.000488244, No Iterations 1 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 5.22619e06, Final residual = 1.98698e08, No Iterations 1 time step continuity errors : sum local = 1.87592e+10, global = 390.727, cumulative = 1624.85 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 0.178086, Final residual = 0.0001416, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 3.05682e+26 max: 2.8755e+33 average: 5.0373e+27 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.0246705, Final residual = 0.000480176, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: 341683 max: 5.29681e+24 average: 2.90027e+19 ExecutionTime = 452.27 s ClockTime = 477 s Time = 6 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.00134352, Final residual = 1.02079e05, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.0010846, Final residual = 5.96071e06, No Iterations 1 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 3.86649e06, Final residual = 8.28192e08, No Iterations 3 time step continuity errors : sum local = 1.84347e+19, global = 11386.1, cumulative = 9761.24 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 2.93311e10, Final residual = 2.93311e10, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.114498, Final residual = 0.00215299, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: 332156 max: 1.09647e+40 average: 8.20484e+34 ExecutionTime = 462.33 s ClockTime = 488 s Time = 7 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 0.0498993, Final residual = 0.000172662, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.0784033, Final residual = 0.000290499, No Iterations 1 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 2.31156e23, Final residual = 2.31156e23, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 1.52759e+30, global = 1.7678e+14, cumulative = 1.7678e+14 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 0.197579, Final residual = 0.00838687, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 7.90723e+56 max: 8.65931e+63 average: 4.08564e+58 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.999368, Final residual = 0.0632189, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: 4.54562e+29 max: 1.42308e+47 average: 1.79576e+42 ExecutionTime = 471.52 s ClockTime = 500 s Time = 8 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 1, Final residual = 7.10734e08, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 0.646717, Final residual = 9.62027e09, No Iterations 1 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 4.36332e21, Final residual = 4.36332e21, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 1.27322e+32, global = 8.48049e+15, cumulative = 8.65727e+15 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 0.997213, Final residual = 2.00069e08, No Iterations 1 bounding epsilon, min: 1.51347e+71 max: 1.90819e+89 average: 7.36319e+83 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 0.203853, Final residual = 7.00189e08, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: 9.21274e+43 max: 3.56366e+57 average: 1.11523e+52 ExecutionTime = 480.72 s ClockTime = 509 s Time = 9 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 4.80891e09, Final residual = 4.80891e09, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 4.77966e09, Final residual = 4.77966e09, No Iterations 0 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 1.15667e20, Final residual = 1.15667e20, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 2.88697e+32, global = 1.34591e+17, cumulative = 1.43248e+17 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 9.2793e12, Final residual = 9.2793e12, No Iterations 0 bounding epsilon, min: 4.97127e19 max: 1.90819e+89 average: 7.36319e+83 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 2.00211e06, Final residual = 2.97586e13, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: 6.9942e+51 max: 1.64917e+75 average: 4.51736e+69 ExecutionTime = 490.87 s ClockTime = 521 s Time = 10 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Ux, Initial residual = 4.50988e06, Final residual = 3.0425e07, No Iterations 1 DILUPBiCG: Solving for Uy, Initial residual = 2.41985e05, Final residual = 1.47112e06, No Iterations 1 DICPCG: Solving for p, Initial residual = 3.28653e20, Final residual = 3.28653e20, No Iterations 0 time step continuity errors : sum local = 5.24766e+32, global = 6.73284e+15, cumulative = 1.36515e+17 DILUPBiCG: Solving for epsilon, Initial residual = 7.52866e30, Final residual = 7.52866e30, No Iterations 0 DILUPBiCG: Solving for k, Initial residual = 3.68813e06, Final residual = 1.75885e07, No Iterations 1 bounding k, min: 6.74138e+68 max: 1.08664e+75 average: 2.03979e+70 ExecutionTime = 500.85 s ClockTime = 533 s K and epsilon keep on being bounded which causes the case to diverge. I have tried to adjust the inlet values of k and epsilon but nothing changes. I have looked through the forum for similar problems but still cannot fix my problem. I would be very greatful for any suggestions to improve my case. Also, to change from the kepsilon to spalartallmaras turbulence model, what changes do i have to make in my case? 

December 6, 2008, 05:36 
Dear Naveed
even i have faced

#2 
New Member
Ameya Durve
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 9 
Dear Naveed
even i have faced such a problem. The only solution i came across was to use hex mesh 

December 9, 2008, 22:04 
hi，
I meet the same problem

#3 
Senior Member
weihong yao
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 117
Rep Power: 9 
hi，
I meet the same problem ever, but when i am change the BC,i fix the problem. you should check your BC again. ivan 

December 10, 2008, 04:45 
dear ivan/yao,
what do you

#4 
Member
Andreas Dietz
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Munich
Posts: 79
Rep Power: 9 
dear ivan/yao,
what do you change your BC to? And which BC do you modify, only k and eps or also U? Kind regards, Andreas 

December 11, 2008, 05:27 
try the komegaSST solver. this

#5 
Senior Member
Wolfgang Heydlauff
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 136
Rep Power: 10 
try the komegaSST solver. this works better. the epsilon model calculates freestream vorticities very good. the komegaSST is better used on airfoils where the freestream vorticities are not so important.


April 8, 2010, 11:15 

#6 
Member
Davide Lupo Conti
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 34
Rep Power: 8 
Hi Foamers,
I know I'm entering the conversation quite late, but i'm having more or less the same problems... I'm new to simpleFoam, and i'm testing it on a NACA0012. (2D problem) I use hex mesh generated using a fortran scripts found here (http://wwwrocq.inria.fr/macs/spip.php?rubrique69)... i have to say they generate a very nice mesh... I'm having some issues understanding which turbulence mode I must use... the best seems to be the ke with the same values as nedved. I tested the realizable ke but the solution never reaches a steady state.. I tried the SST, but the solution blows up after few iterations... can anyone tell me the values for the SST coefficients? I used the ones I used for an interDyMFoam case and in that case they were fine... which BC are you using? I'm using more or less the same as nedved.. last, and very important thing.... how can i find out forces on the airfoil? someone told me that it was possible while postprocessing in paraview, but I couldn't figure out how.. does anyone know? the code doesn't calculate forces anywhere, right? answers would result quite important for me.... thanks a lot... DLC 

October 25, 2013, 03:30 

#7 
New Member
Visakh M G
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Thiruvananthapuram, India
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 7 
Has anyone got the solution to this problem yet? About bounding of epsilon values? please help. I am faving the same proble. Thanks in advance.
\vmg 

October 28, 2013, 05:25 

#8 
New Member
xingyu SIMA
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 4 
hallo, i'm facing this probleme,too. need for help.


October 28, 2013, 05:56 

#9 
Senior Member
Nima Samkhaniani
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tehran, Iran
Posts: 1,168
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 15 
first try to reach steadystate solution in laminar condition, then turn on turbulence
__________________
Telegram channel (https://telegram.me/openfoam4Iranian) My Weblog (http://openfoam.blogfa.com/) Training Course on OpenFOAM at (http://www.isme.ir/) 

October 28, 2013, 06:39 

#10 
New Member
xingyu SIMA
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 4 
yes, thank you very much for your reply.
in fact, i have tried to off the turbulence in RASProperties,and it works very well. But if i turn on turbulence after 400 iterations(i'm not sure when it will reach the steadystate), there will be the same wrong message. 

October 29, 2013, 04:27 

#11 
New Member
Visakh M G
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Thiruvananthapuram, India
Posts: 4
Rep Power: 7 
@nimasam; thankyou.
Yeah, i had tried with running laminar for some time and switching on turbulence later (at once). Still it has got the same problem of unbounding epsilon (it shows "bounding epsilon, min: 0.000470716658863 max: 454112.158676 average: 133.216441665"). The geometry is little heavy, with porous media and i have noticed unbounding of epsilon happens even if i give bounding limits. Is it like it bounds the value of epsilon after printing? The velocity and pressure fields are comparable to fluent results though, but i am not satisfied. Can you tell me which is the best option: running pottentialFoam to get inviscid flow pattern followed by porousSimpleFoam; or running laminar followed by switching turbulence at once; or still gradually increasing the turbulence intensity? Or is it the boundary conditions and initial conditions of k and epsilon? Thanks in advance.. \vmg 

October 29, 2013, 04:54 

#12 
Senior Member
Nima Samkhaniani
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Tehran, Iran
Posts: 1,168
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 15 
well, all options are on the table
running potentialFlow in the begining of simulation will reduce the time of reaching steadystate, if you face sever condition then you may want to turn off turbulence and give a laminar result which can be an initial for lateral turbulence modeling. if you still face the difficulty you may want to: 1 check your BC 2check your fvScheme 3 use relaxation in fvSolution
__________________
Telegram channel (https://telegram.me/openfoam4Iranian) My Weblog (http://openfoam.blogfa.com/) Training Course on OpenFOAM at (http://www.isme.ir/) 

October 29, 2013, 06:19 

#13 
New Member
xingyu SIMA
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 4 
hallo, thanks very much for your reply to this question, my simulation was converge after i made changes in FvScheme, i changed the 'gausse linear' to 'bounded Gauss upwind' for div(phi,U)div(phi,k)div(phi,k)and div(phi,epsilon), i hope these can help you a litte,too.
However, in fact, i still don't understand why i should changes them....it will be very kind if anyone can explaine that for me.. 

November 4, 2013, 15:13 

#14  
New Member
Karthik Rudra Reddy
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 6
Rep Power: 4 
Quote:
This means that they also tend to suppress the turbulent fluctuations. So if you are only interested in computing the mean flow (and hence using a RANS model like kepsilon), then upwind schemes are a good option. For cases where you want to capture the unsteady flow (say, in LES) you will have to use linear schemes. 

Thread Tools  
Display Modes  


Similar Threads  
Thread  Thread Starter  Forum  Replies  Last Post 
Bounded scheme gives unbounded solution  su_junwei  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  3  November 18, 2011 03:35 
SimpleFoam k and epsilon bounded  nedved  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  1  November 25, 2008 21:21 
Bounded slice in Tecplot possible?  Sam  Tecplot  1  August 20, 2008 12:18 
Mesh in wall bounded flow  krishh  FLUENT  1  December 3, 2007 02:09 
Calculation of bounded scalars  ankgupta8um  OpenFOAM Running, Solving & CFD  1  June 19, 2006 05:03 