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How to make simulation of body force in plasma actuator induce flow?

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Old   May 10, 2010, 05:07
Default How to make simulation of body force in plasma actuator induce flow?
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Mominul MuKuT
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This is a forum and place of discussion. But, most of the tread still blank and no comments. Please share your suggestion. I have submit some of my problem but response is not good. Please reply.

I wanna simulate the body force of a flow induced by plasma actuator. How is it possible in phoenics? Is there any sample q1 in the phoenics library??? Please help me
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Old   May 10, 2010, 06:01
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Hi Mukut,
your Problem is very specific. What are your problems exactly? Be more specific. Have you problems by modelling the plasma or donīt you know how to calculate the forces on a body?
Iīm not familiar with flow induced by plasma actuator, not even knowing what a plasma actuator is. Maybe the community can help by solving your problems step by step, when you ask more specific!

Linh
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Old   May 10, 2010, 07:04
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I have already started experiment and collects data using single Dielectric Barrier Discharge plasma actuator.Experimental setup looks like as follow. I need to make






setup in the phoenics domain and find out velocity, body force etc
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Old   June 6, 2010, 13:15
Unhappy How to Estimate Body force due to plasma actuator emperically
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Hi!!,
I am trying to model the effect of DBD based plasma actuator for my Thesis. Does anyone have any clue on how to accomplish this in Fluent or for that matter how to estimate the body force based on the specs of the DBD.

Regards

Soumendu
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Old   June 7, 2010, 05:31
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No one give idea or at least any suggestion. I am really surprised, what kind of discussion group is it? If the experts do not help or give suggestion to the newcomer, how can it be fruitful? Please give suggestion and advice.
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Old   July 6, 2010, 13:43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mukut View Post
No one give idea or at least any suggestion. I am really surprised, what kind of discussion group is it? If the experts do not help or give suggestion to the newcomer, how can it be fruitful? Please give suggestion and advice.
Hi MuKut,

How do you simulate the electrical field as well as plasma field in PHOENICS ? Do you use PHOENICS-CVD? What is the function formula of the body force ?

Best regards
Richard
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Old   July 6, 2010, 20:32
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Dear Richard!

Thanks for knocking. What is phoenics-CVD? I am trying to simulate both electrical and plasma field. [IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/mukut/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]
Above pic shows the solution domain (I am trying to make such type of domain in phoenics, I have taken it from a research paper and the author used FLUENT for simulation). The body force eqn. as stated in figure. According to figure, in the doamin I have to insert a bottom electrode in the dielectric material, but how can I make it??

Till now I am trying to make such domain....using a simple boundary condition to calculate electric potential(but I need 2nd order eqn as B. condition [check the thread link])....In my created domain there is only dielectric and upper domain contains air (like pic), but how can I define upper and bottom electrode.........still crawling...
Can you please give me some suggestion plz??

Thnx

Please check this thread also (how to set an equation as a boundary condition in phoenics?)
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Old   July 8, 2010, 00:00
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Hi Mukut,

The PHOENICS-CVD is the special purpose version of PHOENICS which is used for chemical vapor deposition process in semi-cond. or optoelectronics industries. It's function includes plasma simulation.(used for plasma enhanced CVD) You can directly use this module and should be easier rather than you develop the user subroutine for electrical field as well as plasma field (including electrons density, ions density as well as electrons temperature and ion temperature). You can see the introduction of PHOENICS-CVD from this link
http://www.cham.co.uk/DOCS/cham_product_update_CVD.pdf
And the body force is dependent on the electrical field, you shall calculate the electrical field at first and then set the momentum force as the function of electrical field.
Use the command
patch(bdfc, volume, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, lstep)
(source of u1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
(source of v1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
(source of w1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
where f(e) is the function of electrical field potential
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Old   July 8, 2010, 02:10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallant77_cfd View Post
Hi Mukut,

The PHOENICS-CVD is the special purpose version of PHOENICS which is used for chemical vapor deposition process in semi-cond. or optoelectronics industries. It's function includes plasma simulation.(used for plasma enhanced CVD) You can directly use this module and should be easier rather than you develop the user subroutine for electrical field as well as plasma field (including electrons density, ions density as well as electrons temperature and ion temperature). You can see the introduction of PHOENICS-CVD from this link
http://www.cham.co.uk/DOCS/cham_product_update_CVD.pdf
And the body force is dependent on the electrical field, you shall calculate the electrical field at first and then set the momentum force as the function of electrical field.
Use the command
patch(bdfc, volume, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, lstep)
(source of u1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
(source of v1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
(source of w1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
where f(e) is the function of electrical field potential
Dear Richard

thanks a lot for your every reply. In my university we use phoenics version 2007 I have to ask computer center that is it available or not.

mukut
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Old   July 8, 2010, 03:09
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Hi Mukut,

(source of u1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
(source of v1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)
(source of w1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixv)

It should be corrected as below.

(source of u1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixflu)
(source of v1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixflu)
(source of w1 at bdfc is f(e) with fixflu)
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Old   July 8, 2010, 03:31
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Hi Mukut,

There are many information regarding PHOENICS in POLIS (PHOENICS On-Line Information System). You can launch it by
Starts in Windows--->Programs--->Phoenics 2007----> Polis

Regards
Richard
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Old   July 8, 2010, 04:10
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Thanks for your every advices. I always read POLIS from http://www.cham.co.uk/phoenics/d_polis/polis.htm because PHOENICS is not installed directly in my PC, I use ASTEC-X to use Phoenics from my University server PC.

I have made a q1 file,

1. use EPOT (http://www.cham.co.uk/phoenics/d_pol...e.htm#epot)for electric potential and also use a simple boundary condition sin(XG)*Sin(1) for inlet and Sin(ZG)*Sin(1) for outer boundary.

2. Upper part of solution domain contains air with permittivity 1 and bottom part as a dielectric by using PATCH command and permittivity is 2.3 for kapton. The domain looks like as follows-

To activate CVD, I followed the instruction as given here(http://www.cham.co.uk/phoenics/d_pol...oen/runcvd.htm) like: The CVD options are activated by setting NAMGRD=CVD; this line should therefore always be included.

but running earth, shows error, from result file:
Special GROUND CVD is in use
Unable to access file SPECIDAT: please
check that it is in the local directory


why SPECIDAT is unable? I can't understand it..............

waiting for your reply


according to
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Old   July 8, 2010, 04:37
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Dear rechard!

I need to use this eqn. because it has to be set on upper electrode to calculate electric potential. how can i define? omega is 2*pi*f and f can be taken from period of time. but how is about t? I mean PATCH(EPOT, CELL, ..........................1, lstep) ???

Another question, how can I make such domain (comments#7) that means bottom electrode is inserted to dielectric material? Is it possible to make in phoenics or any other geometry generator is needed??

[previous time i didn't get strong support like you, may be I have already made you bored , sorry for that]
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Old   July 8, 2010, 21:15
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DEAR Richard,

I have asked computer center of my university he said that Phoenices CVD is not available in my university
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Old   July 11, 2010, 23:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mukut View Post
Dear rechard!

I need to use this eqn. because it has to be set on upper electrode to calculate electric potential. how can i define? omega is 2*pi*f and f can be taken from period of time. but how is about t? I mean PATCH(EPOT, CELL, ..........................1, lstep) ???

Another question, how can I make such domain (comments#7) that means bottom electrode is inserted to dielectric material? Is it possible to make in phoenics or any other geometry generator is needed??

[previous time i didn't get strong support like you, may be I have already made you bored , sorry for that]
Hello Mukut,

You can directly put the electrode objects in the domain and then set the object as the user defined and then use the patch name as elect and elect2
patch(elect2, cell, ..................,1, lstep)
coval(elect2,epot,fixval,0)

patch(elect, cell,..............,1,lstep)
real(epmax,omig)
epmax=...
omig=...
(source of epot at elect is epmax*sin(6.283184*omig*tim) with fixval)

Rigards
Richard
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Old   July 11, 2010, 23:47
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Dear Richard,

Thanks and grateful to you for your every advice. Previous reply I made a mistake as I defined PATCH as EPOT it was a type mistake.

I have tried with the following..

PATCH(UELEC,CELL,.............1,LSTEP)
(SOURCE of EPOT at UELEC is 4*SIN(31415.9*TIM))
PATCH(BELEC,CELL,..........,1,LSTEP)
(SOURCE of EPOT at BELEC is 0)

for both electrode I have used INFORM, but when I use patch for bottom electrode which is inside of DIELECTRIC show ERROR in RESULT file: Unknown l0f argument

now trying with your advises...let's see
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Old   July 12, 2010, 00:19
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Dear Richard,

Now the error has gone. But EPOT gives the value of order E-04, hope it will be solved very soon. One thing, when I run virtual reality viewer the VECTOR button shows only the velocity vector if I click on C then EPOT to view the contour and click on VECTOR button to check the EPOT vector... contour is ok for EPOT but VECTOR shows for VELOCITY. how can I solve it?

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/mukut/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG] check this pic. same vector is showed for velocity but in also same for EPOT. The contour is for EPOT.
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Old   July 21, 2010, 21:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gallant77_cfd View Post
Hello Mukut,

You can directly put the electrode objects in the domain and then set the object as the user defined and then use the patch name as elect and elect2
patch(elect2, cell, ..................,1, lstep)
coval(elect2,epot,fixval,0)

patch(elect, cell,..............,1,lstep)
real(epmax,omig)
epmax=...
omig=...
(source of epot at elect is epmax*sin(6.283184*omig*tim) with fixval)

Rigards
Richard
Dear Richard,

Sorry I was busy with experiments and making a manuscript. I have tried the simulation with above mention statement. but EPOT didn't give any result at electrode :-( still trying. If you have any more suggestion, let me know plz :-(
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Old   July 27, 2010, 05:30
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Dear Richard, where are you? I have resolve some problem. Now problem is when I increase the NX then simulation result totally peculiar....
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Old   July 27, 2010, 11:49
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Hello Mukut,
Could you please e-mail me the q1 file ?
Also regarding the electrical potential, have you set the electrical conductivity ? Prndtl(epot)=....
Where do you set the permittivity ? I have to check this problem.
Regards
Richard
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